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embrace yourself because you're about to

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dive into another free first hour

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episode of the higher side chats and we

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just want to let you know that whether

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you're looking for a companion through

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your paranoid insomnia entertaining

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yourself through one of life's mundane

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activities or trying to ward off the

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internal scream to all those sad

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smothered Souls around the office THC is

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here and you should know that every

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episode of the higher side chats has an

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entire second hour four plus members

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a month that you won't miss so become a

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plus member and treat yourself in these

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troubled times always action-packed and

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commercial for you which means you'll

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in the 1930s President Franklin Delano

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Roosevelt addressed the nation through a

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series of radio broadcast known as the

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fireside chats his aim was to reassure

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the common man that our society would

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recover from its troubled times

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well we're far from 1930 and I deal with

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a different kind of buyer new era of

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worldly frustration

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we offer a fresh conversation I'm Greg

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Carl wood and these are the higher side

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chat ladies and gentlemen boys and girls

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children of the revolution let me just

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say today is a real treat and I rarely

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do this sort of pre-show pre intro intro

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thing anymore but I am today just to let

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you know we did have to deviate from our

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normal two-hour format a bit on this one

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dr. [\h__\h] is in the midst of several

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professional and personal situations

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that demand attention and I feel lucky

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to have spent any time with him at all

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but I asked if you'd come talk to me he

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asked if we could make it an hour and I

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said if you can meet me in the middle at

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an hour and a half I can make it work

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without stretching things too thin and

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he was kind enough to agree so we have

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more of a 45 45 split rather than two

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hours and it's fine by me because I can

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be flexible I can have interviews that

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we might not otherwise have it all by

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being flexible and the things we get

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into today once we get past the

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introductory stuff is to me really

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fascinating and honestly surprising big

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thanks to our friend Shema engineer for

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bringing some pretty advanced and exotic

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questions to the table because they did

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open up some pretty wild doors and the

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subject of easy water and its behavior

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as well as its role in the body and how

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important it is to just understand in

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the context of health it's so

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revolutionary that we could have easily

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spent the time just trying to explain

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the 101 stuff and I didn't want to do

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that there are countless interviews with

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dr. [\h__\h] that do and he's got several

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great presentations you can find online

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and that is all important context of

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course his book the fourth face of water

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is about as good as you could ask for

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it's well illustrated it's in a sort of

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casual textbook format and it gives you

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all the data from all their experiments

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and everything you'd want to know about

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this structured water and we first heard

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about dr. Pollux work in shâm engineers

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water alchemy episode where he pulled

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together some of the best paradigm

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busting holistic fringe science we

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should say I guess for lack of a better

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term may be rejected natural science or

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so mind-blowing the system can't take it

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science whatever you want to say but

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I've been thinking about it ever since

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and I see these conferences dr. Pollock

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speaks at and of course the speaker

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doesn't sign off and everything the

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other speakers say and places like that

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but I would just say that the spirit of

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nikola tesla and viktor schauberger and

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mineral alchemists and ether physics

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advocates is very much alive today

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yes overshadowed and outgunned by the

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big machine of economic interest and

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paradigm controlling pre-approved boxes

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of so-called scientific inquiry but it's

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there nonetheless and I hope this serves

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as an inspiration to explore that world

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more while it's thought leaders of today

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are still with us but let's do the damn

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thing buy the ticket take the ride and

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let's surf that easy wave to the

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promised land with the man himself dr.

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Gerald [\h__\h] it's the higher side

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chats podcast you can call it CAC

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always talking French I guess

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enough to piracies stuff they don't want

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you to know it's this stuff we wanna see

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that's Larry here on the higher side

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all right higher side Cheddar's how are

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we doing out there from sunny San Diego

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I'm Greg Carwood and as we all know the

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world is awash with mysteries and damn

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near magical qualities that bright minds

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throughout history have tried to

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highlight only to be pushed the margins

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of their disciplines and oftentimes the

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margins of society itself Nikola Tesla

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Thomas Townsend Brown Rudolf Steiner

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Wilhelm Reich Jacques benveniste and

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viktor schauberger just to name a few

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and it seems it upsetting the scientific

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applecart has repercussions that just

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don't seem worth the risk and you might

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ask yourself when the last time we had a

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radical new scientific breakthrough

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outside of the technological space even

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was sadly our scientific system supplies

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an unfortunate soup of egos assumptions

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skepticism tradition financial interests

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fear and doctrine ation corporate

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sponsorship and a pre-approved paradigm

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that is simply sometimes wrong which

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brings me to today's topic the

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life-giving fundamental element of water

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it covers over 70% of the earth makes up

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over 60% of our bodies but there is

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still so much about it we don't

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understand but luckily the work of

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today's guest dr. Gerald [\h__\h] has

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definitely moved the needle probably

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more so than anyone I know living today

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dr. [\h__\h] is known for his work on the

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fourth phase of water also known as easy

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or structured water where he found that

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h2o placed near a hydrophilic surface

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builds up layers of this gel like

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negatively charged structured water

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better described as h3o - as his work

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has progressed it's turned the world of

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cell biology on its head clarified the

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interaction between water and light

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shown that just these two simple

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components can provide free energy

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taught us so much about the water in our

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bodies and has opened the doors for many

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new applications and health energy and

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beyond you can find dr. [\h__\h]

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maintaining an active laboratory at the

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University of Washington and wet and

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wonderful Seattle he's also the founding

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editor in chief of water a

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multidisciplinary research journal

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director of the Institute of venture

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science co-founder of fourth phase Inc

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and the founder of the annual conference

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on the physics chemistry

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and biology of water we can't forget

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he's also written some very impressive

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books like cells gels and the engines of

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life water and the cell and of course

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the ever-popular fourth phase of water

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beyond solid liquid vapour it is a true

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honor to have him here today to quench

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our intellectual thirst so bend the knee

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folks the scientific activist

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extraordinaire and the structured water

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sage himself dr. Pollock welcome to the

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higher side thanks so much Greg for your

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ultra flattering introduction which

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surely I don't deserve but anyway thank

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you I'm flattered

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well it was the least I could do I mean

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this is a real treat to have you here

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thank you so much your work has come up

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with a lot of previous guests it's

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simple yet complex and as a whole

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Pandora's box of implications and I

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thought maybe we could start with a

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little water history 101 a big part of

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your book the fourth phase of water

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talks about this checkered past poly

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water the water memory debacle as well

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as the scientific culture that doesn't

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make it any easier to have these sorts

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of breakthroughs I think that's all

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useful context for people can you talk

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to us a bit about this history for the

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uninitiated

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oh yeah sure I'm happy to do so so you

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earlier mentioned poly water and also

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mentioned Jacque Valdez who was

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responsible for water memory and

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those two issues it really interesting

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and they really do represent the concept

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that you opened with about the

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difficulty that people have with ideas

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that run counter to the mainstream view

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it's highly problematic and those who

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debacles and which I'll tell you about

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created an atmosphere that led

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scientists to shy away from water

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because these two led to the disruption

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pretty much of two careers and then many

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people thinking over these two giants in

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science were destroyed that way what

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about mere mortals like us and so people

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were really nervous about dipping their

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toes into water and so a lot of people

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stayed away from it and water became a

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an on-field is unimaginable that

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substance so critically important for

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life at the center of all life is a

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field that essentially didn't exist it's

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beginning to change now so let me back

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up and tell you about those two the

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first one was the so-called poly water

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debacle and it took place it actually

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started in Russia when someone came to

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the Moscow laboratory poorest air yaghan

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and Dragon was considered to be the most

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prominent physical chemist in all of

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Russia and Russia had no shortage of

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physical chemists Russian science was

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quite advanced but he was you might say

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the chief people looked up to him and

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someone came to his laboratory and

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demonstrated to him the very kind of

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peculiar observation that if you put

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water into a thin capillary tube clean

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obviously in water that had been

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vaporized and condemned so it shouldn't

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contain any contaminants

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and together they studied that water and

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their yaghan began to become interested

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obviously he was a super famous and well

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recognized scientist and he noticed that

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the water after it got inside that in

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capillary tube changed its properties

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enormous Li it has a different boiling

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point different freezing point the

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density was different and every property

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that they measure was different and he

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thought that this was a kind of

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existence of maybe another kind of water

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type of water phase of water whatever

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during Cold War period this was in the

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1950s some of the papers began getting

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translated into English and Western

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scientists were really interested in

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this exotic sounding finding from a

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famous Russian scientist and they then

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had two choices one choice is to take it

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up and study it tomorrow and see if they

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could even leapfrog this famous

274
00:11:42,490 --> 00:11:40,190
scientist and come up with more and more

275
00:11:44,980 --> 00:11:42,500
interesting stuff that built on his

276
00:11:46,900 --> 00:11:44,990
observation and the other since it was

277
00:11:50,340 --> 00:11:46,910
the Cold War time in the West was

278
00:11:54,460 --> 00:11:50,350
obviously in confrontation with Russia

279
00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:54,470
Soviet scientists who the West was led

280
00:11:59,170 --> 00:11:56,410
to believe were completely incompetent

281
00:12:02,320 --> 00:11:59,180
which obviously wasn't true but a good

282
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:02,330
propaganda and so some scientists at all

283
00:12:05,770 --> 00:12:03,650
this is impossible

284
00:12:08,950 --> 00:12:05,780
we're gonna demonstrate that it's wrong

285
00:12:11,740 --> 00:12:08,960
and so one group went ahead and there

286
00:12:14,530 --> 00:12:11,750
was in fact lead article in the journal

287
00:12:16,540 --> 00:12:14,540
science it was called poly water and it

288
00:12:18,970 --> 00:12:16,550
was about this particular finding and

289
00:12:20,980 --> 00:12:18,980
the authors thought that this was really

290
00:12:23,230 --> 00:12:20,990
interesting believed it was true and

291
00:12:26,920 --> 00:12:23,240
they said you know this kind of water

292
00:12:28,660 --> 00:12:26,930
that there yaghan found it behaves more

293
00:12:30,730 --> 00:12:28,670
like a polymer than a bunch of

294
00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:30,740
independent molecules so in other words

295
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:33,590
the idea is that the water molecule who

296
00:12:38,830 --> 00:12:36,110
are somehow linked together in a way

297
00:12:41,350 --> 00:12:38,840
forming a polymer and therefore they

298
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:41,360
decided to call it poly water and that's

299
00:12:47,950 --> 00:12:46,010
how poliwag ought its name meanwhile the

300
00:12:50,590 --> 00:12:47,960
press got hold of this and some of the

301
00:12:53,420 --> 00:12:50,600
people were expressed a kind of

302
00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:53,430
nervousness because one idea was that

303
00:12:58,250 --> 00:12:56,130
since this is a polymer if you throw it

304
00:13:02,330 --> 00:12:58,260
in water the water will continue to

305
00:13:04,820 --> 00:13:02,340
polymerize into one big solid mass and

306
00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:04,830
life would be extinct so this kind of

307
00:13:10,700 --> 00:13:07,710
journalism was very provocative and I

308
00:13:12,860 --> 00:13:10,710
think it inspired some scientists who

309
00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:12,870
look into it to demonstrate that in fact

310
00:13:17,900 --> 00:13:15,450
it was really wrong and the first one to

311
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:17,910
do so the one that made the real impact

312
00:13:23,150 --> 00:13:20,130
was a group I'm sorry I can't remember

313
00:13:25,460 --> 00:13:23,160
where they were from and they repeated

314
00:13:28,130 --> 00:13:25,470
the same experiment and they found out

315
00:13:30,650 --> 00:13:28,140
that the so-called pure water was not

316
00:13:34,100 --> 00:13:30,660
really pure that when it was in the

317
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:34,110
capillary tube it would leach some of

318
00:13:40,250 --> 00:13:37,680
the silica in other words the glass is

319
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:40,260
somewhat soluble and some of those

320
00:13:44,930 --> 00:13:42,450
molecules were found inside the water

321
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:44,940
and they wrote a paper saying this is

322
00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:47,850
all nonsense because the water that was

323
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:50,130
considered to be pure water was not pure

324
00:13:56,570 --> 00:13:52,530
it had contaminants from the glass

325
00:13:59,240 --> 00:13:56,580
itself so that was devastating for Dario

326
00:14:02,780 --> 00:13:59,250
Gonzaga's a lot of people again thinking

327
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:02,790
that Russian science is not to be paid

328
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:05,850
serious attention to and therefore they

329
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:07,410
were relieved to find that this is all

330
00:14:12,110 --> 00:14:10,530
nonsense fortifying their view that the

331
00:14:14,630 --> 00:14:12,120
Russians don't know what they're doing

332
00:14:17,780 --> 00:14:14,640
and then what really put the nails in

333
00:14:19,220 --> 00:14:17,790
the coffin of poly water was a group I

334
00:14:21,710 --> 00:14:19,230
can't remember I think it was from

335
00:14:23,690 --> 00:14:21,720
Australia they put some salt in the

336
00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:23,700
water and after they put salt in the

337
00:14:28,700 --> 00:14:26,490
water they found that the properties or

338
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:28,710
some of the properties that dairy Augen

339
00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:32,810
had found and put into his papers were

340
00:14:37,730 --> 00:14:35,850
probably due to salt and he suggested or

341
00:14:39,530 --> 00:14:37,740
they suggested that the Russians were

342
00:14:41,390 --> 00:14:39,540
doing the experiments in the summertime

343
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:41,400
and they were probably sweating in the

344
00:14:47,150 --> 00:14:44,250
water of course is it preposterous when

345
00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:47,160
you think about the number one physical

346
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:48,930
chemist in all of Russia but you know

347
00:14:53,210 --> 00:14:51,330
the word got around and finally Polly

348
00:14:56,380 --> 00:14:53,220
water was dead not only dead but it

349
00:14:59,120 --> 00:14:56,390
became a scientific joke so to speak and

350
00:15:01,400 --> 00:14:59,130
what happened two years after that with

351
00:15:04,460 --> 00:15:01,410
dairy Augen himself wrote a paper

352
00:15:07,690 --> 00:15:04,470
essentially retracting everything and so

353
00:15:11,230 --> 00:15:07,700
Polly water was seemingly dead for

354
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:11,240
however I met two people who work very

355
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:13,610
closely with very AAG on one of my trips

356
00:15:19,570 --> 00:15:16,910
to Russia one of them with his last

357
00:15:22,180 --> 00:15:19,580
postdoc and the other one was a guy

358
00:15:25,420 --> 00:15:22,190
who's head of a sister Institute right

359
00:15:29,380 --> 00:15:25,430
near the one that dairy augen ran in a

360
00:15:31,870 --> 00:15:29,390
town called pushchino which is a science

361
00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:31,880
city these guys were both directors of

362
00:15:37,690 --> 00:15:33,770
different Institute's high-level daizen

363
00:15:39,790 --> 00:15:37,700
and my friend had coffee vodka whatever

364
00:15:41,830 --> 00:15:39,800
with him practically every evening and

365
00:15:43,690 --> 00:15:41,840
they would discuss science and they both

366
00:15:49,390 --> 00:15:43,700
independently told me the same story

367
00:15:52,080 --> 00:15:49,400
that gerry oginski a government into

368
00:15:54,790 --> 00:15:52,090
admitting that he made an error because

369
00:15:57,370 --> 00:15:54,800
by putting the blame on him the blame

370
00:15:59,890 --> 00:15:57,380
was therefore shifted from the soviet

371
00:16:02,200 --> 00:15:59,900
government they were very sensitive

372
00:16:05,410 --> 00:16:02,210
about these kind of issues shifted from

373
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:05,420
the government to this one scientist and

374
00:16:10,210 --> 00:16:07,360
they were relieved of all so-called

375
00:16:12,850 --> 00:16:10,220
responsibility so he was in the hot spot

376
00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:12,860
and i guess he didn't have too much

377
00:16:18,790 --> 00:16:15,770
choice because his choice was either to

378
00:16:21,310 --> 00:16:18,800
write that retractor paper or probably

379
00:16:23,740 --> 00:16:21,320
find himself somewhere in Siberia he

380
00:16:26,380 --> 00:16:23,750
knew quite well about the situation so

381
00:16:29,590 --> 00:16:26,390
that was the first and of course many

382
00:16:32,020 --> 00:16:29,600
scientists not knowing what I just

383
00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:32,030
relayed to you thinking that the

384
00:16:37,690 --> 00:16:34,220
scientists of such stature could make

385
00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:37,700
such a blunder led them to kind of shy

386
00:16:41,870 --> 00:16:39,650
away from doing any kind of research

387
00:16:45,530 --> 00:16:41,880
into water

388
00:16:47,570 --> 00:16:45,540
that attitude held for 10-15 years or

389
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:47,580
something like that and then Along Came

390
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:50,160
Jacques Ben Venus and you know about him

391
00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:52,890
but I don't know how much your listeners

392
00:16:57,890 --> 00:16:55,050
know about Jacques pépin Venus to some

393
00:17:01,100 --> 00:16:57,900
he's a hero to others he's a villain

394
00:17:04,130 --> 00:17:01,110
and Jacques at one time was absolutely a

395
00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:04,140
hero in the area of immunology became

396
00:17:09,530 --> 00:17:06,450
very famous in France after doing a

397
00:17:12,620 --> 00:17:09,540
stint I think in San Diego for a while

398
00:17:14,330 --> 00:17:12,630
and became famous for some techniques it

399
00:17:17,120 --> 00:17:14,340
means a logical technique that he

400
00:17:19,580 --> 00:17:17,130
developed and he came back to France and

401
00:17:22,820 --> 00:17:19,590
he had a laboratory of something like 50

402
00:17:26,090 --> 00:17:22,830
people very major scientist who was

403
00:17:28,130 --> 00:17:26,100
connected with so many other important

404
00:17:31,430 --> 00:17:28,140
people in France and throughout the

405
00:17:34,790 --> 00:17:31,440
world and along came some guy who I

406
00:17:36,740 --> 00:17:34,800
leave was a homeopathy and wanted to

407
00:17:40,010 --> 00:17:36,750
demonstrate something to him in the lab

408
00:17:44,450 --> 00:17:40,020
so Jacques had been working with certain

409
00:17:47,150 --> 00:17:44,460
cells that secrete histamine and if he

410
00:17:49,910 --> 00:17:47,160
would expose those cells to a solution

411
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:49,920
containing antibodies the cells would

412
00:17:55,970 --> 00:17:52,290
secrete and this guy came along with a

413
00:17:58,340 --> 00:17:55,980
background in homeopathy he said you

414
00:18:00,100 --> 00:17:58,350
know I can take your antibodies and

415
00:18:02,210 --> 00:18:00,110
instead of using them as you use them

416
00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:02,220
concentrated I can dilute them and

417
00:18:06,380 --> 00:18:04,410
dilute them and dilute them until it

418
00:18:08,690 --> 00:18:06,390
effectively - no antibodies left only

419
00:18:11,330 --> 00:18:08,700
the water that held the antibodies I can

420
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:11,340
get the same response in Jaques response

421
00:18:16,070 --> 00:18:14,010
was I don't believe it however being an

422
00:18:18,050 --> 00:18:16,080
open-minded guy he said well I've got

423
00:18:19,970 --> 00:18:18,060
this big laboratory there's a space in

424
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:19,980
the corner why don't you take that space

425
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:22,110
and show us your result and the guy

426
00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:24,690
proceeded to do these serial dilutions

427
00:18:29,950 --> 00:18:27,770
with shaking in between the same as

428
00:18:32,750 --> 00:18:29,960
essentially as the homeopathy do

429
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:32,760
diluting and diluting and diluting to

430
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:35,090
the point where essentially only water

431
00:18:40,550 --> 00:18:38,400
remained the water that had been exposed

432
00:18:42,170 --> 00:18:40,560
to the antibodies and they did the

433
00:18:45,290 --> 00:18:42,180
experiment in voila

434
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:45,300
it worked he got same result and Jacques

435
00:18:49,790 --> 00:18:47,520
was flabbergasted by this and they

436
00:18:51,860 --> 00:18:49,800
continued to do experiments pretty much

437
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:51,870
the same as what happened to Jerry Augen

438
00:18:55,340 --> 00:18:53,940
who became entranced by the guy who came

439
00:18:58,010 --> 00:18:55,350
to his laboratory

440
00:19:01,070 --> 00:18:58,020
demonstrate and experiment so having

441
00:19:03,799 --> 00:19:01,080
obtained a positive result he thought

442
00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:03,809
well where should I publish and the

443
00:19:07,549 --> 00:19:05,910
obvious answer was this is so important

444
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:07,559
that we're going to publish in nature

445
00:19:14,330 --> 00:19:11,039
which still is against nature in science

446
00:19:17,900 --> 00:19:14,340
being the preeminent scientific journals

447
00:19:21,039 --> 00:19:17,910
so he sent in a manuscript and what came

448
00:19:24,830 --> 00:19:21,049
back from the editor John Maddox

449
00:19:27,110 --> 00:19:24,840
actually Sir John Maddox was a kind of

450
00:19:29,270 --> 00:19:27,120
blistering letter saying how we're not

451
00:19:31,190 --> 00:19:29,280
even going to review this because if

452
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:31,200
you're right everybody else is wrong and

453
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:32,970
I refuse to believe that everybody else

454
00:19:37,549 --> 00:19:36,090
is wrong therefore we won't send it to

455
00:19:41,779 --> 00:19:37,559
the reviewers even for their

456
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:41,789
consideration so being a student I shock

457
00:19:46,250 --> 00:19:43,650
has been with his thought about it and

458
00:19:48,770 --> 00:19:46,260
decided well instead of fighting with

459
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:48,780
the editor the best thing to do is to

460
00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:51,330
ask a bunch of colleagues to repeat his

461
00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:54,330
protocols exactly and see what results

462
00:19:58,940 --> 00:19:56,850
they get Jacque obviously had friends

463
00:20:01,310 --> 00:19:58,950
around the world and recruited them and

464
00:20:03,350 --> 00:20:01,320
it turned out that by repeating

465
00:20:05,510 --> 00:20:03,360
precisely the same protocols they got

466
00:20:08,659 --> 00:20:05,520
the same result and they sent it again

467
00:20:10,940 --> 00:20:08,669
to nature with multiple authors and they

468
00:20:12,649 --> 00:20:10,950
said in their paper that they couldn't

469
00:20:14,299 --> 00:20:12,659
do it every time about the number of

470
00:20:17,860 --> 00:20:14,309
times they could get the positive result

471
00:20:20,690 --> 00:20:17,870
was easily highly statistically

472
00:20:22,940 --> 00:20:20,700
significant despite an occasional

473
00:20:27,020 --> 00:20:22,950
failure which they didn't understand but

474
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:27,030
it was real so what came back is much

475
00:20:32,740 --> 00:20:30,000
the same response it doesn't matter how

476
00:20:36,049 --> 00:20:32,750
many people repeat it it can't be and

477
00:20:40,130 --> 00:20:36,059
obviously this is not the sort of thing

478
00:20:42,799 --> 00:20:40,140
that endears scientists to the editors

479
00:20:44,570 --> 00:20:42,809
of scientific journals it's just

480
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:44,580
incredible to receive a response like

481
00:20:49,399 --> 00:20:46,650
that and by the way the stories I'm

482
00:20:51,470 --> 00:20:49,409
telling you are in books and journals

483
00:20:53,750 --> 00:20:51,480
and such and there's more detail is

484
00:20:56,980 --> 00:20:53,760
there but it's just so interesting so

485
00:20:59,899 --> 00:20:56,990
finally there was a lot of push from

486
00:21:02,299 --> 00:20:59,909
antara there quite a few homeopathy and

487
00:21:04,340 --> 00:21:02,309
they recognized Jacque benveniste

488
00:21:06,770 --> 00:21:04,350
as being their hero because he

489
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:06,780
demonstrated that what they do in an

490
00:21:11,090 --> 00:21:08,610
everyday basis the deluge

491
00:21:13,659 --> 00:21:11,100
to produce homeopathy that he

492
00:21:16,029 --> 00:21:13,669
demonstrated his famous scientist

493
00:21:19,370 --> 00:21:16,039
demonstrated that it actually works and

494
00:21:22,250 --> 00:21:19,380
they're justified in the kinds of things

495
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:22,260
that they do so the feedback got back to

496
00:21:26,659 --> 00:21:24,510
London the headquarters of nature and

497
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:26,669
they were under a lot of pressure do

498
00:21:30,710 --> 00:21:28,559
something because they certainly didn't

499
00:21:32,990 --> 00:21:30,720
want the reputation of being arbitrary

500
00:21:34,509 --> 00:21:33,000
and rejecting a paper simply because it

501
00:21:37,759 --> 00:21:34,519
didn't agree with the status quo

502
00:21:40,220 --> 00:21:37,769
so they made it compromise and when I

503
00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:40,230
visited too late shocked been with this

504
00:21:45,139 --> 00:21:42,330
he showed me he said I got a call right

505
00:21:46,850 --> 00:21:45,149
on that telephone right there from John

506
00:21:50,419 --> 00:21:46,860
Maddox and he said I'll make a deal with

507
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:50,429
you so what's the deal the deal was I'll

508
00:21:56,539 --> 00:21:52,740
publish your paper in the next week's

509
00:21:58,549 --> 00:21:56,549
issue of nature however I'll do it only

510
00:22:02,210 --> 00:21:58,559
under the condition that you allow a

511
00:22:05,180 --> 00:22:02,220
committee of peers scientific peers to

512
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:05,190
come to Paris from wherever and look

513
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:06,570
over your shoulder and see what you're

514
00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:08,610
doing and then report back to the

515
00:22:14,570 --> 00:22:12,510
readers of nature so Jacques agreed I

516
00:22:16,850 --> 00:22:14,580
guess you'd agree and I'd agree with

517
00:22:18,830 --> 00:22:16,860
sincere they have some findings and we

518
00:22:20,990 --> 00:22:18,840
don't mind somebody coming and watching

519
00:22:23,090 --> 00:22:21,000
us doing the experiment or doing it

520
00:22:25,580 --> 00:22:23,100
themselves so he agreed

521
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:25,590
several peers would be coming to his

522
00:22:32,180 --> 00:22:29,730
laboratory few weeks later they came so

523
00:22:34,580 --> 00:22:32,190
who was on the committee of peers the

524
00:22:38,690 --> 00:22:34,590
first was the editor himself who had an

525
00:22:42,289 --> 00:22:38,700
axe to grind the second was the amazing

526
00:22:45,169 --> 00:22:42,299
Randi a magician of the highest order

527
00:22:46,519 --> 00:22:45,179
who is famous for debunking the tricks

528
00:22:49,159 --> 00:22:46,529
of other magicians

529
00:22:50,930 --> 00:22:49,169
it was obvious who they were thinking of

530
00:22:52,310 --> 00:22:50,940
some kind of trick or some kind of

531
00:22:54,620 --> 00:22:52,320
cheating and they brought him along

532
00:22:57,379 --> 00:22:54,630
because he's expert at finding out what

533
00:23:00,560 --> 00:22:57,389
the tricks are and the third one was a

534
00:23:02,419 --> 00:23:00,570
guy named Walter Stewart he came from

535
00:23:04,990 --> 00:23:02,429
the National Institutes of Health and

536
00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:05,000
they have a group there that

537
00:23:10,279 --> 00:23:07,769
investigates fraud in science and he was

538
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:10,289
in that group so by the makeup of the

539
00:23:14,570 --> 00:23:11,730
committee this was not exactly a

540
00:23:17,090 --> 00:23:14,580
committee of peers but a commando

541
00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:17,100
committee to figure out what kind of

542
00:23:20,810 --> 00:23:19,080
trick or what kind of fraud was being

543
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:20,820
perpetrated

544
00:23:25,700 --> 00:23:23,730
and so they came to Paris and the first

545
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:25,710
meeting or the first demonstration I

546
00:23:30,980 --> 00:23:28,530
should say the technician who

547
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:30,990
consistently did the experiments did the

548
00:23:35,180 --> 00:23:33,210
experiments again and right in front of

549
00:23:37,790 --> 00:23:35,190
their eyes and it worked just exactly as

550
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:37,800
they had reported positive results the

551
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:40,410
second day the same technician did the

552
00:23:44,450 --> 00:23:42,690
experiment and it was a kind of little

553
00:23:47,390 --> 00:23:44,460
trick played by the committee they

554
00:23:49,370 --> 00:23:47,400
actually they themselves coded each one

555
00:23:52,220 --> 00:23:49,380
of the vials and only they knew how to

556
00:23:54,890 --> 00:23:52,230
decode and when they finally decoded it

557
00:23:56,810 --> 00:23:54,900
still worked and the third day was it

558
00:24:00,050 --> 00:23:56,820
Walter steward from the fraud department

559
00:24:02,030 --> 00:24:00,060
at scientific division or something of

560
00:24:05,210 --> 00:24:02,040
scientific integrity what it's called

561
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:05,220
and this guy did the delusions and when

562
00:24:09,860 --> 00:24:07,410
he did the delusions they didn't get the

563
00:24:11,930 --> 00:24:09,870
expected result and so they huddled in

564
00:24:14,660 --> 00:24:11,940
their hotel they decided that well is

565
00:24:17,540 --> 00:24:14,670
obvious since the French when they do it

566
00:24:19,910 --> 00:24:17,550
they got the so-called correct result

567
00:24:22,460 --> 00:24:19,920
but when it was done by one of the

568
00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:22,470
visitors they got the opposite result

569
00:24:29,120 --> 00:24:26,850
and so despite N equals one they decided

570
00:24:29,870 --> 00:24:29,130
that it must be some kind of fraud some

571
00:24:31,640 --> 00:24:29,880
kind of trick

572
00:24:34,730 --> 00:24:31,650
which they couldn't find out by the way

573
00:24:36,980 --> 00:24:34,740
kind of surprising because this is James

574
00:24:39,410 --> 00:24:36,990
Randi the amazing Randi is probably

575
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:39,420
worth leading expert on debunking the

576
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:41,930
tricks of other magicians who are

577
00:24:47,570 --> 00:24:44,730
predestiny what they're doing and he was

578
00:24:51,410 --> 00:24:47,580
unable to figure out what was going on

579
00:24:54,260 --> 00:24:51,420
with Ben Venus so they wrote a paper in

580
00:24:56,570 --> 00:24:54,270
nature and they said well this whole

581
00:24:58,970 --> 00:24:56,580
thing is a water memory which is what

582
00:25:00,980 --> 00:24:58,980
they refer to it as because the water

583
00:25:03,350 --> 00:25:00,990
that was diluted seemed to have memory

584
00:25:07,670 --> 00:25:03,360
of the molecules with which it had been

585
00:25:09,950 --> 00:25:07,680
in contact before the dilution so the

586
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:09,960
title was something like water memory is

587
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:12,210
a delusion in other words it's magic

588
00:25:17,090 --> 00:25:15,360
trick and his career went south it went

589
00:25:19,460 --> 00:25:17,100
so far south that he couldn't get any

590
00:25:22,430 --> 00:25:19,470
more support his lab essentially closed

591
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:22,440
down at the height of his career and he

592
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:25,440
became a scientific joke the joke run

593
00:25:29,690 --> 00:25:27,330
something like you're having trouble

594
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:29,700
with memory drink some of Ben Venus

595
00:25:34,250 --> 00:25:31,530
water it will come back

596
00:25:37,780 --> 00:25:34,260
no anyway those

597
00:25:40,220 --> 00:25:37,790
to the poly water and water memory had

598
00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:40,230
devastating effects on water research

599
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:44,310
because although water research was a

600
00:25:50,060 --> 00:25:47,850
rather prominent field before the 1950s

601
00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:50,070
as you could imagine it's quite natural

602
00:25:54,740 --> 00:25:52,320
that it should be it kind of vanished

603
00:25:57,230 --> 00:25:54,750
from the field with a few exceptions for

604
00:26:00,680 --> 00:25:57,240
several decades and so there was almost

605
00:26:03,380 --> 00:26:00,690
no continuity in the field and some of

606
00:26:06,830 --> 00:26:03,390
us crazy people found the subject to be

607
00:26:10,220 --> 00:26:06,840
of interest in my own particular case it

608
00:26:11,850 --> 00:26:10,230
was following a scientist who is now 100

609
00:26:15,290 --> 00:26:11,860
years old

610
00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:15,300
this very year Gilbert link for me

611
00:26:21,270 --> 00:26:18,010
starting my career in the field of

612
00:26:23,850 --> 00:26:21,280
muscle contraction with nobody coming to

613
00:26:26,670 --> 00:26:23,860
the realization that water being

614
00:26:29,910 --> 00:26:26,680
two-thirds of muscle all the theories

615
00:26:32,790 --> 00:26:29,920
ignore water and series are based on

616
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:32,800
proteins alone on how they interact to

617
00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:35,770
produce force and motion presuming that

618
00:26:41,190 --> 00:26:38,110
the water doesn't exist is like proteins

619
00:26:44,370 --> 00:26:41,200
in a vacuum and so I being in the field

620
00:26:47,100 --> 00:26:44,380
and not being happy with the current

621
00:26:48,990 --> 00:26:47,110
theory of muscle contraction because it

622
00:26:51,420 --> 00:26:49,000
didn't fit the evidence and looking

623
00:26:54,110 --> 00:26:51,430
around for alternatives the idea that

624
00:26:56,820 --> 00:26:54,120
water might play some role became

625
00:26:59,970 --> 00:26:56,830
potentially really interesting so that's

626
00:27:02,790 --> 00:26:59,980
how I got into the area of water but I

627
00:27:05,250 --> 00:27:02,800
think I'm giving a monologue and I need

628
00:27:07,590 --> 00:27:05,260
to stop and ask you of course follow-up

629
00:27:09,750 --> 00:27:07,600
question no worries no worries

630
00:27:12,510 --> 00:27:09,760
that's an excellent breakdown clearly

631
00:27:13,860 --> 00:27:12,520
people have had hunches about water and

632
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:13,870
there being some properties worth

633
00:27:18,930 --> 00:27:16,930
exploring and the result hasn't been

634
00:27:22,410 --> 00:27:18,940
great for them when they've taken a peek

635
00:27:24,060 --> 00:27:22,420
but of course that brings us up to kind

636
00:27:26,550 --> 00:27:24,070
of your work and the fourth phase of

637
00:27:27,990 --> 00:27:26,560
water and so the three phases of water

638
00:27:30,540 --> 00:27:28,000
that we learn about in school are pretty

639
00:27:33,390 --> 00:27:30,550
easy to see in everyday life are there

640
00:27:36,120 --> 00:27:33,400
places where people can look to see this

641
00:27:38,370 --> 00:27:36,130
negatively charged gel like fourth phase

642
00:27:40,980 --> 00:27:38,380
to maybe help their understanding of it

643
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:40,990
how do you break people in how do you

644
00:27:47,010 --> 00:27:44,170
break people in it's a good question and

645
00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:47,020
I'm tempted to respond by saying that

646
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:49,570
it's possible to take that water

647
00:27:53,759 --> 00:27:51,369
which is kind of like a liquid crystal

648
00:27:56,399 --> 00:27:53,769
it's not quite as solid and not quite a

649
00:27:59,249 --> 00:27:56,409
liquid it's like a gel and we're now

650
00:28:02,219 --> 00:27:59,259
able to actually repeat what an Italian

651
00:28:06,349 --> 00:28:02,229
group has done and that is make a solid

652
00:28:09,180 --> 00:28:06,359
of it you can take that water extracted

653
00:28:11,369 --> 00:28:09,190
dehydrated by some standard technique

654
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:11,379
and what you get out is solid ez water

655
00:28:14,969 --> 00:28:13,690
and you can see it you can touch it you

656
00:28:17,969 --> 00:28:14,979
can play with it you can do what you

657
00:28:20,489 --> 00:28:17,979
want so it is tangible now that's not

658
00:28:22,759 --> 00:28:20,499
the easiest way to deal because you need

659
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:22,769
the right equipment and it's rather

660
00:28:28,019 --> 00:28:25,450
demanding to do those experiments but

661
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:28,029
that is a you might take a glib answer

662
00:28:33,599 --> 00:28:30,129
you can touch it feel it look at it it

663
00:28:36,690 --> 00:28:33,609
looks like a kind of thread a kind of

664
00:28:39,389 --> 00:28:36,700
golden brown color that winds itself

665
00:28:41,789 --> 00:28:39,399
around and we're beginning to explore

666
00:28:45,089 --> 00:28:41,799
the properties of it to see if it has

667
00:28:48,359 --> 00:28:45,099
the same properties as the original that

668
00:28:50,129 --> 00:28:48,369
exists more naturally so how do you

669
00:28:52,710 --> 00:28:50,139
introduce this to a person who knows

670
00:28:54,389 --> 00:28:52,720
nothing about it and one thing I could

671
00:28:56,879 --> 00:28:54,399
say is that your body is filled with it

672
00:28:59,119 --> 00:28:56,889
so we all learn that our body is

673
00:29:02,190 --> 00:28:59,129
two-thirds water actually it's not it's

674
00:29:02,909 --> 00:29:02,200
the fraction the percent diminishes with

675
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:02,919
age

676
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:07,210
so newborn might be 80% 85% water by

677
00:29:13,259 --> 00:29:10,210
volume the embryo probably even higher

678
00:29:15,299 --> 00:29:13,269
and as we get long in the tooth the

679
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:15,309
volume percent of water tends to

680
00:29:21,419 --> 00:29:18,090
diminish and when you get to be my age

681
00:29:24,479 --> 00:29:21,429
it's probably down to 70 percent or even

682
00:29:26,639 --> 00:29:24,489
65 percent or something like that so we

683
00:29:28,769 --> 00:29:26,649
keep getting progressively dehydrated

684
00:29:32,039 --> 00:29:28,779
but most of the water that's in our body

685
00:29:34,919 --> 00:29:32,049
is not ordinary h2o liquid water it's

686
00:29:38,249 --> 00:29:34,929
the fourth phase of water how do we know

687
00:29:40,409 --> 00:29:38,259
that well there are many reasons I guess

688
00:29:42,330 --> 00:29:40,419
I don't want to go into all of the

689
00:29:44,359 --> 00:29:42,340
different reasons because it takes too

690
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:44,369
long but let me just summarize by saying

691
00:29:49,859 --> 00:29:46,570
anyone has gone through high school

692
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:49,869
biology who has played with sales giant

693
00:29:56,009 --> 00:29:52,570
sales or tissues and inadvertently cut

694
00:29:58,619 --> 00:29:56,019
open one of them so with the liquid you

695
00:30:00,599 --> 00:29:58,629
expect it to pour out just like a

696
00:30:02,490 --> 00:30:00,609
balloon that's filled with water you

697
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:02,500
puncture it and all the water comes out

698
00:30:06,779 --> 00:30:04,000
but the water doesn't come out of the

699
00:30:08,220 --> 00:30:06,789
cell a little bit may leak out but the

700
00:30:09,419 --> 00:30:08,230
rest of the water inside the cell

701
00:30:10,860 --> 00:30:09,429
remains as it was

702
00:30:13,710 --> 00:30:10,870
so it's not a liquid and certainly it's

703
00:30:16,289 --> 00:30:13,720
not a solid because you can compress the

704
00:30:18,810 --> 00:30:16,299
cell so it's somewhere in between and

705
00:30:21,690 --> 00:30:18,820
other evidence points to the fact that

706
00:30:23,490 --> 00:30:21,700
it's actually fourth phase water it

707
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:23,500
makes a lot of sense because this water

708
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:27,450
forms next to surfaces particularly

709
00:30:32,909 --> 00:30:30,370
hydrophilic or water-loving surfaces

710
00:30:36,210 --> 00:30:32,919
that is tons of surfaces if you can

711
00:30:37,980 --> 00:30:36,220
imagine like take your desk and drop a

712
00:30:40,250 --> 00:30:37,990
droplet of water on your desk

713
00:30:42,450 --> 00:30:40,260
if the water spreads out then a

714
00:30:45,049 --> 00:30:42,460
hydrophilic or water-loving

715
00:30:47,159 --> 00:30:45,059
if it beads up like Teflon then it's

716
00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:47,169
hydrophobic and this phenomenon doesn't

717
00:30:52,140 --> 00:30:49,809
occur next to hydrophobic surfaces only

718
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:52,150
next to hydrophilic not everyone but

719
00:30:57,960 --> 00:30:55,210
most of them and your tail is just

720
00:31:00,960 --> 00:30:57,970
totally packed with hydrophilic surfaces

721
00:31:04,289 --> 00:31:00,970
all of the proteins and the other

722
00:31:07,799 --> 00:31:04,299
macromolecules that failure cell the

723
00:31:10,020 --> 00:31:07,809
solids are roughly 70% protein there are

724
00:31:12,630 --> 00:31:10,030
nucleic acids and other solids the

725
00:31:16,380 --> 00:31:12,640
surfaces of these that abut the water

726
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:16,390
they're essentially all peppers small

727
00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:19,450
pockets hydrophilic or charged surfaces

728
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:21,240
that just the kind of surfaces that

729
00:31:27,510 --> 00:31:23,890
organize the water into this fourth

730
00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:27,520
phase so that's one point of recognition

731
00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:31,710
that this fourth phase is not merely

732
00:31:38,610 --> 00:31:34,650
laboratory phenomenon or peculiarities

733
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:38,620
it fills your body and also fills the

734
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:41,289
body of all animals and plants as well

735
00:31:47,580 --> 00:31:44,770
I'm not suggesting there's no h2o in any

736
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:47,590
one of there is but it's mostly easy or

737
00:31:53,100 --> 00:31:51,370
for space water mm-hmm yes that's helped

738
00:31:54,990 --> 00:31:53,110
it definitely helps I think that's a

739
00:31:56,340 --> 00:31:55,000
great primer of course I don't want to

740
00:31:58,680 --> 00:31:56,350
get too fundamental because then we'll

741
00:32:00,510 --> 00:31:58,690
never get to the advanced stuff but it

742
00:32:02,399 --> 00:32:00,520
is good for context though and your

743
00:32:05,220 --> 00:32:02,409
studies of course as you said show that

744
00:32:07,230 --> 00:32:05,230
water in our cells is not simple h2o but

745
00:32:09,750 --> 00:32:07,240
rather this easy water and also that

746
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:09,760
simple sunlight can increase the easy

747
00:32:15,870 --> 00:32:13,210
zone or the layers of easy water between

748
00:32:16,350 --> 00:32:15,880
the bulk water and that hydrophilic

749
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:16,360
surface

750
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:18,970
and infrared and ultraviolet light in

751
00:32:24,780 --> 00:32:22,210
particular are helpful in growing this

752
00:32:26,340 --> 00:32:24,790
easy zone or the layers of it which is

753
00:32:28,890 --> 00:32:26,350
why it's good for us to get out in the

754
00:32:30,990 --> 00:32:28,900
Sun and why infrared saunas have such

755
00:32:33,780 --> 00:32:31,000
health benefits but can you elaborate on

756
00:32:37,410 --> 00:32:33,790
this relationship between easy water and

757
00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:37,420
sunlight in general sure happy to do

758
00:32:40,500 --> 00:32:37,810
that

759
00:32:41,430 --> 00:32:40,510
it's really important because first of

760
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:41,440
all I just want to straighten out

761
00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:44,530
something that yeah I our infrared and

762
00:32:48,780 --> 00:32:46,690
ultraviolet definitely have effects but

763
00:32:51,150 --> 00:32:48,790
the effects are different in the case of

764
00:32:53,670 --> 00:32:51,160
ultraviolet it actually we found

765
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:53,680
experimentally it doesn't expand the

766
00:32:58,020 --> 00:32:55,690
exclusion zone but we have preliminary

767
00:33:00,840 --> 00:32:58,030
not conclusive evidence that when you

768
00:33:05,370 --> 00:33:00,850
add ultraviolet light it gets absorbed

769
00:33:08,130 --> 00:33:05,380
by the fourth phase and we think it

770
00:33:10,530 --> 00:33:08,140
increases the negative charge contained

771
00:33:12,390 --> 00:33:10,540
in the fourth phase or in the easy as

772
00:33:14,310 --> 00:33:12,400
you say that the two requirements I just

773
00:33:19,270 --> 00:33:14,320
wanted to straighten out but let me go

774
00:33:20,860 --> 00:33:19,280
back to like an effective life so

775
00:33:23,140 --> 00:33:20,870
I think to mention is what we're talking

776
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:23,150
about is very similar to the first step

777
00:33:28,180 --> 00:33:25,610
in photosynthesis you know in the first

778
00:33:31,540 --> 00:33:28,190
step of photosynthesis light is absorbed

779
00:33:35,470 --> 00:33:31,550
and the light splits the water step 1

780
00:33:36,690 --> 00:33:35,480
into h plus and o h minus this is well

781
00:33:39,370 --> 00:33:36,700
known to be the first step in

782
00:33:42,580 --> 00:33:39,380
photosynthesis it's also what we've

783
00:33:44,050 --> 00:33:42,590
observed and that's the start of the

784
00:33:46,930 --> 00:33:44,060
action with light so I just want to make

785
00:33:50,860 --> 00:33:46,940
a point before going on that what we've

786
00:33:52,660 --> 00:33:50,870
observed in water is very similar to

787
00:33:54,730 --> 00:33:52,670
what people know exists in

788
00:33:57,700 --> 00:33:54,740
photosynthesis where light breaks the

789
00:33:59,860 --> 00:33:57,710
water into negative and positive

790
00:34:02,830 --> 00:33:59,870
components so it's not really so exotic

791
00:34:05,770 --> 00:34:02,840
it's almost predictable because plants

792
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:05,780
are mostly water so if what happens

793
00:34:11,460 --> 00:34:08,810
known to happen in plant also happens in

794
00:34:14,290 --> 00:34:11,470
water that we've seen with other

795
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:14,300
hydrophilic next to other hydrophilic

796
00:34:19,240 --> 00:34:16,490
surfaces instead of say chlorophyll in

797
00:34:22,510 --> 00:34:19,250
plants then it's reassuring that there's

798
00:34:24,700 --> 00:34:22,520
precedent for it okay so we couldn't

799
00:34:27,909 --> 00:34:24,710
figure out at first where the energy

800
00:34:29,110 --> 00:34:27,919
came from to build this zone so the zone

801
00:34:32,290 --> 00:34:29,120
is negatively charged

802
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:32,300
typically negatively charged with an

803
00:34:38,740 --> 00:34:35,690
equal positive charge beyond the zone of

804
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:38,750
fourth phase or the EZ this is like a

805
00:34:43,720 --> 00:34:41,090
battery you have negative and the

806
00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:43,730
negative is built from those Oh H minus

807
00:34:49,149 --> 00:34:46,310
units that can build up the form it

808
00:34:51,550 --> 00:34:49,159
actually forms a hexagonal structure all

809
00:34:54,419 --> 00:34:51,560
those Oh H minuses linking together in

810
00:34:56,830 --> 00:34:54,429
some way may be beyond the scope of the

811
00:34:59,200 --> 00:34:56,840
conversation because I need to show some

812
00:35:03,010 --> 00:34:59,210
diagrams but it's a battery that's

813
00:35:05,650 --> 00:35:03,020
formed and batteries have energy but you

814
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:05,660
can't create a battery from nothing you

815
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:07,130
need to put in energies just like

816
00:35:10,630 --> 00:35:09,050
charging your cell phone battery you

817
00:35:13,210 --> 00:35:10,640
plug it in and then you can use the

818
00:35:15,100 --> 00:35:13,220
battery again so the principle applies

819
00:35:17,530 --> 00:35:15,110
to everything and in order to achieve

820
00:35:20,290 --> 00:35:17,540
this kind of separation of charge or

821
00:35:21,850 --> 00:35:20,300
battery like effect you need energy we

822
00:35:24,930 --> 00:35:21,860
can figure out where on earth the energy

823
00:35:29,290 --> 00:35:24,940
came from it took us a while and also

824
00:35:31,420 --> 00:35:29,300
the EZ is ordered this is an ordered

825
00:35:32,089 --> 00:35:31,430
phase it's the best we understand it's a

826
00:35:35,059 --> 00:35:32,099
stack

827
00:35:38,809 --> 00:35:35,069
of hexagonal sheets that form adjacent

828
00:35:41,359 --> 00:35:38,819
to the hydrophilic surface once she

829
00:35:44,170 --> 00:35:41,369
built upon another so this is highly

830
00:35:47,630 --> 00:35:44,180
ordered if you start from chaos like

831
00:35:50,450 --> 00:35:47,640
ordinary h2o with molecules randomly

832
00:35:52,910 --> 00:35:50,460
disposed and bouncing around a huge

833
00:35:56,269 --> 00:35:52,920
number of times every second there's not

834
00:35:58,549 --> 00:35:56,279
much order so if you go from disorder to

835
00:36:00,999 --> 00:35:58,559
order you also need to put in energy

836
00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:01,009
it's a fundamental thermodynamic

837
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:04,160
principle that if you want to create a

838
00:36:09,049 --> 00:36:06,690
order out of chaos you need to put

839
00:36:11,359 --> 00:36:09,059
energy so both that and the battery

840
00:36:14,539 --> 00:36:11,369
recharging the battery both of them

841
00:36:17,329 --> 00:36:14,549
require energy so where on earth does

842
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:17,339
the energy come from so we were

843
00:36:21,319 --> 00:36:19,710
scratching our heads for two or three

844
00:36:23,739 --> 00:36:21,329
years because it had to come from

845
00:36:26,930 --> 00:36:23,749
somewhere but we couldn't figure it out

846
00:36:29,569 --> 00:36:26,940
maybe because of my dense brain or

847
00:36:31,819 --> 00:36:29,579
something like that but one day a

848
00:36:35,029 --> 00:36:31,829
student who is doing what he was not

849
00:36:39,079 --> 00:36:35,039
supposed to do actually led to our

850
00:36:41,569 --> 00:36:39,089
figuring it out and what he did was he

851
00:36:43,549 --> 00:36:41,579
had an experiment where he had some

852
00:36:45,559 --> 00:36:43,559
hydrophilic material I think it was

853
00:36:48,339 --> 00:36:45,569
nappy on which we often use but not

854
00:36:52,249 --> 00:36:48,349
always nappy on sitting in water and

855
00:36:55,549 --> 00:36:52,259
next to the nappy on we had an exclusion

856
00:36:58,450 --> 00:36:55,559
zone easy or portrays water and beyond

857
00:37:01,219 --> 00:36:58,460
that we had little particles fears

858
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:01,229
microspheres that are excluded from this

859
00:37:06,469 --> 00:37:04,410
liquid crystalline easy area and so we

860
00:37:09,529 --> 00:37:06,479
could easily identify the easy as being

861
00:37:11,509 --> 00:37:09,539
the area between the hydrophilic surface

862
00:37:13,489 --> 00:37:11,519
and where the microspheres were so we

863
00:37:15,229 --> 00:37:13,499
can watch it in the microscope so the

864
00:37:18,229 --> 00:37:15,239
student that was doing the experiment

865
00:37:19,910 --> 00:37:18,239
and he found a gooseneck lamp sitting

866
00:37:21,859 --> 00:37:19,920
next to it and picked up the gooseneck

867
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:21,869
lamp and shined it on the chamber and

868
00:37:28,579 --> 00:37:25,170
called me over and said hey take a look

869
00:37:30,829 --> 00:37:28,589
and I could see that the region of the

870
00:37:34,729 --> 00:37:30,839
chamber that was illuminated with that

871
00:37:37,279 --> 00:37:34,739
lamp was much bigger than other regions

872
00:37:39,650 --> 00:37:37,289
of the EZ and the longer he has a lamp

873
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:39,660
there the more it would grow and when it

874
00:37:44,780 --> 00:37:42,650
took the lamp away it receded back to

875
00:37:48,230 --> 00:37:44,790
original size so

876
00:37:51,340 --> 00:37:48,240
from his quote experiment unquote we got

877
00:37:54,890 --> 00:37:51,350
the idea well you know if photons light

878
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:54,900
was important in expanding the easy

879
00:37:59,030 --> 00:37:57,090
maybe it's actually photons that are

880
00:38:01,820 --> 00:37:59,040
responsible for even the original

881
00:38:05,090 --> 00:38:01,830
buildup of the EZ and we tested this

882
00:38:07,190 --> 00:38:05,100
using a formal experimental protocol and

883
00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:07,200
we publish the results and we looked at

884
00:38:12,620 --> 00:38:08,970
different wavelengths to see which ones

885
00:38:14,810 --> 00:38:12,630
are the most effective in doing this so

886
00:38:17,570 --> 00:38:14,820
we started with the ultraviolet the

887
00:38:21,230 --> 00:38:17,580
shortest wavelength and we found little

888
00:38:24,290 --> 00:38:21,240
or no expansion of the EZ and as the

889
00:38:27,170 --> 00:38:24,300
wavelength moved to the longer ones into

890
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:27,180
the visible range starting with violet

891
00:38:32,750 --> 00:38:30,210
and blue and green and so on we could

892
00:38:35,750 --> 00:38:32,760
see that longer the wavelength the

893
00:38:39,650 --> 00:38:35,760
larger the effect but when we got the

894
00:38:42,830 --> 00:38:39,660
very longest ones into the infrared we

895
00:38:45,050 --> 00:38:42,840
saw huge effect much much larger by an

896
00:38:47,330 --> 00:38:45,060
order or even almost two orders of

897
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:47,340
magnitude than any visible wavelength

898
00:38:54,620 --> 00:38:50,490
especially at the wavelength of 3.0

899
00:38:57,650 --> 00:38:54,630
micrometers that had a huge effect on

900
00:39:00,440 --> 00:38:57,660
expanding the exclusion zone and if we

901
00:39:02,510 --> 00:39:00,450
left that very feeble light that came

902
00:39:05,870 --> 00:39:02,520
from the LED that we use if we let it

903
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:05,880
stay on we could get increases up to ten

904
00:39:11,810 --> 00:39:08,130
times the size so the effect is

905
00:39:15,260 --> 00:39:11,820
absolutely huge with a really small low

906
00:39:19,130 --> 00:39:15,270
intensity of light so it became clear

907
00:39:21,370 --> 00:39:19,140
that yeah there is energy and the energy

908
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:21,380
is natural it comes from the environment

909
00:39:28,580 --> 00:39:24,690
or you can add it yourself you can turn

910
00:39:31,670 --> 00:39:28,590
on you and I our infrared lamp and watch

911
00:39:34,070 --> 00:39:31,680
the occlusion zone grow or you could

912
00:39:37,280 --> 00:39:34,080
just do nothing there's plenty of

913
00:39:39,770 --> 00:39:37,290
infrared energy out there although most

914
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:39,780
people including myself I must admit

915
00:39:44,620 --> 00:39:43,050
early on don't realize where it comes

916
00:39:47,020 --> 00:39:44,630
from actually

917
00:39:49,270 --> 00:39:47,030
if you put the bagel in the toaster and

918
00:39:52,810 --> 00:39:49,280
look inside the toaster you see the

919
00:39:55,540 --> 00:39:52,820
coils glowing bright orange and it's hot

920
00:39:58,180 --> 00:39:55,550
and you say oh yeah well it's generating

921
00:40:00,730 --> 00:39:58,190
heat and heat is pretty much the same as

922
00:40:02,980 --> 00:40:00,740
infrared light or infrared energy so

923
00:40:05,950 --> 00:40:02,990
it's generating infrared the same with

924
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:05,960
the oven electric oven and that's true

925
00:40:12,370 --> 00:40:09,650
but it's also true that infrared energy

926
00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:12,380
is coming from everywhere so if you're

927
00:40:16,420 --> 00:40:14,810
sitting in the room and you're dark in

928
00:40:19,270 --> 00:40:16,430
the room turn off all the lights and

929
00:40:22,390 --> 00:40:19,280
shades are closed curtains drawn

930
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:22,400
whatever it's dark in there you can't

931
00:40:27,490 --> 00:40:24,770
see anything and if you take out your

932
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:27,500
cell phone and try to photograph it

933
00:40:32,140 --> 00:40:29,210
you'll get nothing but if you take out a

934
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:32,150
camera that has an infrared sensor

935
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:35,330
instead of a visible light sensor just

936
00:40:38,920 --> 00:40:36,650
replace it and there are lots of

937
00:40:41,110 --> 00:40:38,930
infrared cameras out there you'll get a

938
00:40:43,270 --> 00:40:41,120
beautiful image of everything at night

939
00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:43,280
for example or in a darkened room

940
00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:45,710
because everything is generating

941
00:40:50,260 --> 00:40:47,510
infrared energy to capture that energy

942
00:40:53,590 --> 00:40:50,270
you get an image the military of course

943
00:40:56,490 --> 00:40:53,600
uses it for looking at images at night

944
00:40:59,620 --> 00:40:56,500
and it can be particularly useful

945
00:41:02,680 --> 00:40:59,630
astronomers use it as well so it's all

946
00:41:05,860 --> 00:41:02,690
over which means it's free energy which

947
00:41:07,870 --> 00:41:05,870
means is unlike what you read about in a

948
00:41:10,540 --> 00:41:07,880
chemistry textbook about free energy

949
00:41:12,220 --> 00:41:10,550
this is literally free it's free for the

950
00:41:15,040 --> 00:41:12,230
taking it costs you not even a nickel

951
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:15,050
and you get it and because this energy

952
00:41:20,530 --> 00:41:17,650
is always around you need to go to

953
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:20,540
absolute zero to get rid of it which is

954
00:41:25,690 --> 00:41:23,570
not highly practical if there and

955
00:41:28,510 --> 00:41:25,700
because the energy is there to build

956
00:41:30,310 --> 00:41:28,520
easy water you always have easy water

957
00:41:33,700 --> 00:41:30,320
whenever you have the correct conditions

958
00:41:37,090 --> 00:41:33,710
and that is right hydrophilic surface

959
00:41:39,220 --> 00:41:37,100
and ordinary water you have infrared

960
00:41:39,790 --> 00:41:39,230
energy in the infrared we'll build it

961
00:41:45,220 --> 00:41:39,800
easy

962
00:41:48,910 --> 00:41:45,230
and the funny thing is finding out that

963
00:41:51,100 --> 00:41:48,920
light is the driver you know it took us

964
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:51,110
at least a couple of years to scratch

965
00:41:56,650 --> 00:41:53,090
our heads and figure out being unable

966
00:41:58,480 --> 00:41:56,660
until that student found it so I do some

967
00:42:01,300 --> 00:41:58,490
teaching here at the University wash

968
00:42:02,650 --> 00:42:01,310
and I had a class and I was explaining

969
00:42:05,020 --> 00:42:02,660
through the class something about our

970
00:42:06,730 --> 00:42:05,030
findings and instead of telling them the

971
00:42:09,099 --> 00:42:06,740
energy source I asked a question can

972
00:42:11,980 --> 00:42:09,109
anybody figure out where the energy

973
00:42:13,599 --> 00:42:11,990
might come from and a student sitting in

974
00:42:17,079 --> 00:42:13,609
the class raised his hand rather

975
00:42:19,930 --> 00:42:17,089
tentatively and he said he's almost

976
00:42:22,870 --> 00:42:19,940
embarrassed to offer his suggestion he

977
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:22,880
said light I grabbed that student

978
00:42:25,780 --> 00:42:24,410
quickly and got him to work in our

979
00:42:28,210 --> 00:42:25,790
laboratory he can figure it out right

980
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:28,220
away it took us two years so there we go

981
00:42:33,130 --> 00:42:30,890
Wow Wow anyway it's light and that's how

982
00:42:35,980 --> 00:42:33,140
we came to understand and of course it

983
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:35,990
has a lot of implications hmm not just

984
00:42:39,730 --> 00:42:37,760
that the situation is similar to the

985
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:39,740
first step of photosynthesis but a lot

986
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:42,130
of applications especially for health

987
00:42:47,050 --> 00:42:44,570
absolutely that's such an impressive

988
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:47,060
discovery and you have shown that when

989
00:42:50,980 --> 00:42:48,650
you have this water where the charge is

990
00:42:54,070 --> 00:42:50,990
separated you can actually use that

991
00:42:56,140 --> 00:42:54,080
energy to power a clock or light a light

992
00:42:58,329 --> 00:42:56,150
bulb to read a little from your book you

993
00:43:00,370 --> 00:42:58,339
write we have shown that ez batteries

994
00:43:02,470 --> 00:43:00,380
can supply charges and that they can

995
00:43:04,450 --> 00:43:02,480
store charges for substantial periods of

996
00:43:07,089 --> 00:43:04,460
time further they can deliver a

997
00:43:09,370 --> 00:43:07,099
significant fraction of that charge that

998
00:43:11,620 --> 00:43:09,380
charge can provide energy for driving

999
00:43:14,410 --> 00:43:11,630
diverse processes ranging from chemical

1000
00:43:16,390 --> 00:43:14,420
reactions to hydraulic flows indeed the

1001
00:43:18,510 --> 00:43:16,400
easy battery could be a versatile

1002
00:43:21,370 --> 00:43:18,520
supplier for much of nature's energy

1003
00:43:23,170 --> 00:43:21,380
well I'm no scientist but that sounds

1004
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:23,180
pretty exciting how far can you take

1005
00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:24,770
this because this ever be a real factor

1006
00:43:29,220 --> 00:43:27,200
in society's energy needs or could it

1007
00:43:32,109 --> 00:43:29,230
power an engine or something like that

1008
00:43:32,470 --> 00:43:32,119
well it struck us that the answer was

1009
00:43:35,859 --> 00:43:32,480
yes

1010
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:35,869
and one of my students who was actually

1011
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:38,930
working on that project and demonstrated

1012
00:43:43,010 --> 00:43:41,310
it was PhD thesis

1013
00:43:46,670 --> 00:43:43,020
that you can actually light a light bulb

1014
00:43:48,980 --> 00:43:46,680
with that energy a small light bulb so

1015
00:43:50,710 --> 00:43:48,990
he demonstrated possibility he didn't

1016
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:50,720
demonstrate practicality because

1017
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:53,610
demonstrated practicality you need a lot

1018
00:43:58,640 --> 00:43:55,410
of energy otherwise you know it's just a

1019
00:44:01,850 --> 00:43:58,650
laboratory phenomenon and he convinced

1020
00:44:04,850 --> 00:44:01,860
me that we should form a company to

1021
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:04,860
develop this and we did it was not my

1022
00:44:09,710 --> 00:44:07,170
idea but I think was his idea let's call

1023
00:44:12,770 --> 00:44:09,720
it fourth phase incorporated we did and

1024
00:44:15,770 --> 00:44:12,780
we now have a company that set up and

1025
00:44:18,230 --> 00:44:15,780
pursuing several of the findings in our

1026
00:44:20,840 --> 00:44:18,240
laboratory to see if they can serve to

1027
00:44:22,820 --> 00:44:20,850
benefit the world that's one of them but

1028
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:22,830
we put it on the back burner because at

1029
00:44:27,590 --> 00:44:25,890
first we thought filtration was more

1030
00:44:29,630 --> 00:44:27,600
critical you know our waters are just

1031
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:29,640
filled with all kinds of trash and

1032
00:44:35,660 --> 00:44:32,970
chemicals and pharmaceuticals and it's

1033
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:35,670
becoming a problem so serious that it's

1034
00:44:41,930 --> 00:44:39,330
having a really major impact on people's

1035
00:44:45,050 --> 00:44:41,940
health and incidents of chronic

1036
00:44:47,180 --> 00:44:45,060
illnesses are increasing so you can take

1037
00:44:49,270 --> 00:44:47,190
water and you can actually put it

1038
00:44:52,790 --> 00:44:49,280
through a process called reverse osmosis

1039
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:52,800
get rid of pretty much all the junk but

1040
00:44:58,940 --> 00:44:55,040
the cost of doing that it's highly

1041
00:45:00,380 --> 00:44:58,950
energy intensive and well it's possible

1042
00:45:02,450 --> 00:45:00,390
to do something like that in Saudi

1043
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:02,460
Arabia which in fact is what they do to

1044
00:45:06,050 --> 00:45:04,530
get essentially all their water because

1045
00:45:08,810 --> 00:45:06,060
they have no other resources

1046
00:45:10,250 --> 00:45:08,820
apart from them it's not so feasible for

1047
00:45:12,620 --> 00:45:10,260
the rest of the world because it's so

1048
00:45:14,930 --> 00:45:12,630
expensive to do it you can take salt

1049
00:45:17,390 --> 00:45:14,940
water and get drinking water out of this

1050
00:45:20,240 --> 00:45:17,400
process so we know that since the

1051
00:45:23,810 --> 00:45:20,250
exclusion zone by definition it excludes

1052
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:23,820
it excludes essentially all or almost

1053
00:45:29,930 --> 00:45:25,920
all of these pharmaceuticals and

1054
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:29,940
bacteria and viruses and the only energy

1055
00:45:34,550 --> 00:45:32,010
that's required is the energy of the Sun

1056
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:34,560
you just capture the easy water and you

1057
00:45:39,260 --> 00:45:36,210
can get energy and company has been

1058
00:45:39,850 --> 00:45:39,270
working on this and we're still working

1059
00:45:42,950 --> 00:45:39,860
on it

1060
00:45:45,950 --> 00:45:42,960
also in the back burner we're limited

1061
00:45:48,560 --> 00:45:45,960
basically by resources we're looking for

1062
00:45:51,620 --> 00:45:48,570
more investment and there's such a

1063
00:45:53,420 --> 00:45:51,630
bright future for this but in order to

1064
00:45:54,590 --> 00:45:53,430
do it to hire the people to make it

1065
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:54,600
happen you

1066
00:45:59,270 --> 00:45:57,450
the right personnel so we have some we

1067
00:46:01,340 --> 00:45:59,280
need more and we need more investments

1068
00:46:04,060 --> 00:46:01,350
because there's so much that has come

1069
00:46:07,790 --> 00:46:04,070
out of our lab that can be exploited for

1070
00:46:10,940 --> 00:46:07,800
societal use the benefit of society also

1071
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:10,950
drinking water the water that contains

1072
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:14,250
easy in it as a you know reasonable

1073
00:46:18,890 --> 00:46:16,770
fraction of drinking water also has

1074
00:46:21,980 --> 00:46:18,900
health benefits because this easy water

1075
00:46:24,620 --> 00:46:21,990
is essential for cell function and we're

1076
00:46:27,020 --> 00:46:24,630
working on developing that but we've

1077
00:46:29,450 --> 00:46:27,030
learned that going from a laboratory

1078
00:46:33,110 --> 00:46:29,460
demonstration to building the technology

1079
00:46:34,340 --> 00:46:33,120
is a giant step it's it's not so simple

1080
00:46:36,710 --> 00:46:34,350
to do it to make something that's

1081
00:46:38,870 --> 00:46:36,720
actually practical for people to use so

1082
00:46:40,790 --> 00:46:38,880
we're working hard on all of these and

1083
00:46:43,790 --> 00:46:40,800
just going rounding back to your

1084
00:46:46,700 --> 00:46:43,800
question about practical use yes we do

1085
00:46:48,710 --> 00:46:46,710
think so but we've been limited in our

1086
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:48,720
ability to work on and develop these

1087
00:46:54,670 --> 00:46:52,050
outcomes mmm we're looking hard for

1088
00:46:57,830 --> 00:46:54,680
investment we have a really wonderful

1089
00:47:01,700 --> 00:46:57,840
board which includes I'm not sure if you

1090
00:47:04,490 --> 00:47:01,710
know Robert Kennedy jr. done so much for

1091
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:04,500
various health issues and he's on our

1092
00:47:09,620 --> 00:47:06,930
board and several of people including

1093
00:47:11,210 --> 00:47:09,630
our distinguished CEO and the company

1094
00:47:13,850 --> 00:47:11,220
people who know their way around but

1095
00:47:15,500 --> 00:47:13,860
we're now trying to build our investment

1096
00:47:17,540 --> 00:47:15,510
to make some of these things happen

1097
00:47:19,910 --> 00:47:17,550
we're really excited about it hmm

1098
00:47:21,610 --> 00:47:19,920
so they were say yes I'm sorry I gave a

1099
00:47:24,650 --> 00:47:21,620
long answer to a short question

1100
00:47:27,380 --> 00:47:24,660
practicality we think so and we're

1101
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:27,390
working on it yes indeed and well here's

1102
00:47:32,030 --> 00:47:29,370
an interesting one so you found out that

1103
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:32,040
water in a hydrophilic tube can kind of

1104
00:47:36,290 --> 00:47:33,810
flow on its own the negative charge

1105
00:47:37,670 --> 00:47:36,300
pushes it along without any kind of pump

1106
00:47:40,310 --> 00:47:37,680
really maybe this is the mechanism

1107
00:47:43,460 --> 00:47:40,320
behind blood flow in the body more so

1108
00:47:47,060 --> 00:47:43,470
than the heart being the sole pump but

1109
00:47:49,010 --> 00:47:47,070
that knowledge alone could be used to do

1110
00:47:50,780 --> 00:47:49,020
something like maybe upgrade our entire

1111
00:47:52,940 --> 00:47:50,790
plumbing infrastructure I guess in a

1112
00:47:55,250 --> 00:47:52,950
perfect world we would have hydrophilic

1113
00:47:58,610 --> 00:47:55,260
vortexing pipes that can absorb sunlight

1114
00:48:00,710 --> 00:47:58,620
above the ground as they flow yeah I

1115
00:48:03,250 --> 00:48:00,720
don't know I mean I'm sure there's huge

1116
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:03,260
infrastructural possibilities there

1117
00:48:07,089 --> 00:48:05,450
that's really creative you touched on so

1118
00:48:10,319 --> 00:48:07,099
many issues and let me first just

1119
00:48:14,380 --> 00:48:10,329
respond in a practical way to your

1120
00:48:16,900 --> 00:48:14,390
hypothesis about using it in major pipes

1121
00:48:18,550 --> 00:48:16,910
to promote flow I think it won't be

1122
00:48:21,609 --> 00:48:18,560
practical for that although I might

1123
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:21,619
actually be wrong because the driving

1124
00:48:26,740 --> 00:48:23,450
phenomenon starts at the hydrophilic

1125
00:48:28,720 --> 00:48:26,750
surface and if you have a narrow tube

1126
00:48:31,180 --> 00:48:28,730
the hydrophilic surface is a major

1127
00:48:33,819 --> 00:48:31,190
fraction of the opening in the - of the

1128
00:48:35,770 --> 00:48:33,829
lumen it might be 10 20 percent of the

1129
00:48:37,780 --> 00:48:35,780
diameter and it works beautifully in

1130
00:48:40,420 --> 00:48:37,790
situations like that if the tube

1131
00:48:42,910 --> 00:48:40,430
material is hydrophilic if you have a

1132
00:48:47,410 --> 00:48:42,920
giant tube like some of the underground

1133
00:48:49,300 --> 00:48:47,420
tubes that take water from some Glacial

1134
00:48:51,849 --> 00:48:49,310
males for example as a conduit to the

1135
00:48:54,700 --> 00:48:51,859
city these are huge tubes and because

1136
00:48:56,980 --> 00:48:54,710
their diameters are really large the EZ

1137
00:49:00,250 --> 00:48:56,990
is a very small fraction the EZ that

1138
00:49:02,589 --> 00:49:00,260
forms just inside the tube material is a

1139
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:02,599
very small fraction of the tube diameter

1140
00:49:07,750 --> 00:49:05,210
and it won't work so effectively I'm not

1141
00:49:10,540 --> 00:49:07,760
suggesting that it's impossible but I'm

1142
00:49:13,540 --> 00:49:10,550
suggesting that it may not be practical

1143
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:13,550
in the manner that you suggested if you

1144
00:49:18,609 --> 00:49:15,890
on the other hand put a lot of small

1145
00:49:21,190 --> 00:49:18,619
tubes in parallel yes then it can work

1146
00:49:24,069 --> 00:49:21,200
and it can work effectively but

1147
00:49:25,900 --> 00:49:24,079
returning to the heart just before this

1148
00:49:27,550 --> 00:49:25,910
interview I was speaking to my students

1149
00:49:29,530 --> 00:49:27,560
has been working on that project and

1150
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:29,540
we're putting together a couple of

1151
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:32,690
papers just before his PhD which is

1152
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:35,770
about to receive and we did indeed find

1153
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:39,650
that in the cardiovascular system this

1154
00:49:44,890 --> 00:49:42,710
mechanism the slow mechanism that you

1155
00:49:47,319 --> 00:49:44,900
eluded to is actually working probably

1156
00:49:49,780 --> 00:49:47,329
at the level of the capillaries and so

1157
00:49:51,670 --> 00:49:49,790
you don't actually need the heart to get

1158
00:49:53,890 --> 00:49:51,680
flow let me explain

1159
00:49:57,400 --> 00:49:53,900
they're having experiments not only my

1160
00:49:59,260 --> 00:49:57,410
student doing it but people maybe four

1161
00:50:01,470 --> 00:49:59,270
or five different investigators over the

1162
00:50:03,640 --> 00:50:01,480
last half century published papers

1163
00:50:06,970 --> 00:50:03,650
demonstrating that if the heart is

1164
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:06,980
either blocked or stopped for some

1165
00:50:11,710 --> 00:50:08,650
reason the heart is not functioning the

1166
00:50:15,980 --> 00:50:11,720
blood flow doesn't go to zero something

1167
00:50:17,810 --> 00:50:15,990
else is involved in persisting

1168
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:17,820
and it doesn't flow at the same rate by

1169
00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:19,530
any means it's much slower but it keeps

1170
00:50:24,820 --> 00:50:22,530
going and in the case of my student

1171
00:50:28,370 --> 00:50:24,830
studying the flow and the chick embryo

1172
00:50:30,860 --> 00:50:28,380
when the heart is stopped by injecting

1173
00:50:32,570 --> 00:50:30,870
potassium chloride flow continues he

1174
00:50:34,880 --> 00:50:32,580
demonstrated the same as what other

1175
00:50:37,820 --> 00:50:34,890
people demonstrated it keeps going is

1176
00:50:40,130 --> 00:50:37,830
kind of surprised because we expect the

1177
00:50:42,410 --> 00:50:40,140
heart stops you're dead and there's no

1178
00:50:45,530 --> 00:50:42,420
flow but it's not true the flow persists

1179
00:50:47,870 --> 00:50:45,540
for say an hour in his case or more than

1180
00:50:48,980 --> 00:50:47,880
an hour and as I said is reported in

1181
00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:48,990
other labs but nobody pays attention

1182
00:50:53,900 --> 00:50:51,450
because it seems too exotic to be true

1183
00:50:56,210 --> 00:50:53,910
but you have clear evidence that it's

1184
00:50:59,150 --> 00:50:56,220
true so there's got to be some mechanism

1185
00:51:02,660 --> 00:50:59,160
that drives it and when we first found

1186
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:02,670
this phenomenon of flow in tubes let me

1187
00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:04,800
explain how we found this was also a

1188
00:51:11,330 --> 00:51:07,050
kind of student who is maybe being

1189
00:51:13,790 --> 00:51:11,340
slightly disobedient and well maybe

1190
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:13,800
that's not the right word his eyes were

1191
00:51:18,590 --> 00:51:16,410
open so he had an experiment where he

1192
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:18,600
was using the same material that I

1193
00:51:22,970 --> 00:51:20,490
mention is called Navion and it deals

1194
00:51:26,210 --> 00:51:22,980
very nice exclusion zones next to it and

1195
00:51:28,340 --> 00:51:26,220
we found that nafion comes not only in

1196
00:51:31,250 --> 00:51:28,350
the sheets that we had used but also a

1197
00:51:33,140 --> 00:51:31,260
tubes so it's like a straw and the

1198
00:51:35,300 --> 00:51:33,150
material was made of nappy on and his

1199
00:51:37,970 --> 00:51:35,310
job was to look in the microscope and

1200
00:51:40,340 --> 00:51:37,980
see if he put this tube in water that

1201
00:51:41,990 --> 00:51:40,350
contained microspheres could he

1202
00:51:44,810 --> 00:51:42,000
absolutely detect and easy and we

1203
00:51:48,050 --> 00:51:44,820
expected an easy as an annular region

1204
00:51:50,000 --> 00:51:48,060
just inside the tube inside the wall of

1205
00:51:52,340 --> 00:51:50,010
the tube and just outside the wall of

1206
00:51:53,570 --> 00:51:52,350
the tube running along the length and he

1207
00:51:56,630 --> 00:51:53,580
could confirm that but he found

1208
00:51:58,160 --> 00:51:56,640
something else I distinctly will

1209
00:51:59,780 --> 00:51:58,170
remember that day because it's

1210
00:52:02,960 --> 00:51:59,790
unforgettable to me because of the

1211
00:52:04,070 --> 00:52:02,970
magnitude of his accidental discovery so

1212
00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:04,080
I'm sitting in my office

1213
00:52:08,660 --> 00:52:05,730
same office from which I'm speaking

1214
00:52:10,460 --> 00:52:08,670
right now I had a visitor I can't

1215
00:52:13,190 --> 00:52:10,470
remember who the visitor was but

1216
00:52:15,650 --> 00:52:13,200
obviously it must have been a kind of

1217
00:52:17,690 --> 00:52:15,660
non impacting visitor otherwise I might

1218
00:52:19,730 --> 00:52:17,700
have remembered and I was sitting and

1219
00:52:21,950 --> 00:52:19,740
talking and the student comes barging in

1220
00:52:25,820 --> 00:52:21,960
and usually the students don't do that

1221
00:52:27,020 --> 00:52:25,830
they have a modicum of politeness you

1222
00:52:28,849 --> 00:52:27,030
know especially if I'm sitting with

1223
00:52:31,190 --> 00:52:28,859
somebody else poke their head

1224
00:52:32,479 --> 00:52:31,200
or something he came in and practically

1225
00:52:34,099 --> 00:52:32,489
in the middle of a sentence I was

1226
00:52:35,479 --> 00:52:34,109
talking to the guys you know I just

1227
00:52:38,269 --> 00:52:35,489
discovered something and I thought it's

1228
00:52:40,099 --> 00:52:38,279
important enough for me to tell you so

1229
00:52:42,650 --> 00:52:40,109
he goes on to tell me he said no the

1230
00:52:44,930 --> 00:52:42,660
tube is sitting horizontally at the

1231
00:52:47,329 --> 00:52:44,940
bottom of the chamber and he's looking

1232
00:52:49,549 --> 00:52:47,339
inside the tube with a lens of a

1233
00:52:51,920 --> 00:52:49,559
microscope and he said you know there's

1234
00:52:53,779 --> 00:52:51,930
flow inside the tube and the flow just

1235
00:52:56,779 --> 00:52:53,789
keeps going it won't stop and I thought

1236
00:52:58,699 --> 00:52:56,789
this might be important I thought if

1237
00:53:01,160 --> 00:52:58,709
this is really true and we checked it

1238
00:53:04,130 --> 00:53:01,170
out next few days and it was clearly

1239
00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:04,140
true it is true is really important

1240
00:53:08,930 --> 00:53:07,529
because usually in order to have flow

1241
00:53:11,329 --> 00:53:08,940
inside the tube you need pressure

1242
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:11,339
typically for example your heart is

1243
00:53:15,079 --> 00:53:13,410
developing the pressure which pushes the

1244
00:53:17,809 --> 00:53:15,089
blood through the tube through your

1245
00:53:19,459 --> 00:53:17,819
large arteries and such but he found in

1246
00:53:21,650 --> 00:53:19,469
these narrow tubes

1247
00:53:23,539 --> 00:53:21,660
he said the flow is no pressure gradient

1248
00:53:25,339 --> 00:53:23,549
no difference of pressure no high

1249
00:53:27,019 --> 00:53:25,349
pressure at one end and low pressure at

1250
00:53:29,299 --> 00:53:27,029
the other as you'd find in the

1251
00:53:31,430 --> 00:53:29,309
cardiovascular system but the tool is

1252
00:53:32,930 --> 00:53:31,440
just lying there horizontally he's

1253
00:53:35,660 --> 00:53:32,940
looking with the microscope and the flow

1254
00:53:38,329 --> 00:53:35,670
just continues we actually we could have

1255
00:53:40,339 --> 00:53:38,339
it going for up to a day and a half

1256
00:53:42,859 --> 00:53:40,349
before it slowed down for reasons that

1257
00:53:44,509 --> 00:53:42,869
we actually understand but I thought if

1258
00:53:47,900 --> 00:53:44,519
it's really true since you need energy

1259
00:53:49,549 --> 00:53:47,910
to drive flow and we know that the water

1260
00:53:52,759 --> 00:53:49,559
is absorbing energy from the environment

1261
00:53:55,910 --> 00:53:52,769
as I pointed out a few moments ago this

1262
00:53:57,559 --> 00:53:55,920
could be confirming evidence that this

1263
00:53:59,359 --> 00:53:57,569
energy that's coming and really does

1264
00:54:01,130 --> 00:53:59,369
come it really does get absorbed is

1265
00:54:04,069 --> 00:54:01,140
actually put to use in some way because

1266
00:54:06,829 --> 00:54:04,079
it's driving flow so I was really

1267
00:54:09,079 --> 00:54:06,839
excited about this finding and then then

1268
00:54:11,509 --> 00:54:09,089
I went to Russia to see a colleague of

1269
00:54:15,499 --> 00:54:11,519
mine after we had found this and studied

1270
00:54:17,749 --> 00:54:15,509
it we found that again light was the

1271
00:54:21,249 --> 00:54:17,759
energy that was driving this because we

1272
00:54:23,359 --> 00:54:21,259
had more light we get faster flow so I

1273
00:54:26,449 --> 00:54:23,369
went to visit my friend

1274
00:54:28,789 --> 00:54:26,459
Vladimir via coffin Moscow University

1275
00:54:31,519 --> 00:54:28,799
and as I went to his lab but the first

1276
00:54:33,199 --> 00:54:31,529
thing he's an old friend of mine first

1277
00:54:36,109 --> 00:54:33,209
thing is I want you to meet my colleague

1278
00:54:38,689 --> 00:54:36,119
in the next laboratory and Colleen the

1279
00:54:40,999 --> 00:54:38,699
next laboratory came over sat down with

1280
00:54:43,130 --> 00:54:41,009
his assistant and they started talking

1281
00:54:44,959 --> 00:54:43,140
to me unfortunately I couldn't

1282
00:54:46,969 --> 00:54:44,969
understand the Russian but it was

1283
00:54:48,829 --> 00:54:46,979
translated by my friend and what they

1284
00:54:51,289 --> 00:54:48,839
were telling me is that there's a big

1285
00:54:55,130 --> 00:54:51,299
problem in the cardiovascular system and

1286
00:54:59,289 --> 00:54:55,140
I'm thinking what kind of big problem

1287
00:55:03,620 --> 00:54:59,299
can there be I did my PhD thesis

1288
00:55:05,569 --> 00:55:03,630
simulating the dynamics of flow and

1289
00:55:08,299 --> 00:55:05,579
pressure in the cardiovascular system

1290
00:55:11,539 --> 00:55:08,309
and quite arrogantly I thought we had

1291
00:55:14,359 --> 00:55:11,549
all the answers until I spoke to him at

1292
00:55:17,420 --> 00:55:14,369
greater length and he convinced me of

1293
00:55:19,519 --> 00:55:17,430
the serious problem within 15 minutes

1294
00:55:21,650 --> 00:55:19,529
and so what's the problem the problem is

1295
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:21,660
that the capillaries the smallest

1296
00:55:28,969 --> 00:55:24,930
capillaries in healthy young adults the

1297
00:55:30,439 --> 00:55:28,979
diameter is 3 to 4 micrometers and the

1298
00:55:34,219 --> 00:55:30,449
red blood cells that need to pass

1299
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:34,229
through are 6 or 7 micrometers so it's

1300
00:55:39,799 --> 00:55:36,930
kind of like stuffing a basketball

1301
00:55:43,099 --> 00:55:39,809
through a narrow hoop ok you got to push

1302
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:43,109
it through or as I like to say sometimes

1303
00:55:47,569 --> 00:55:45,690
it's like stuffing up your toilet and in

1304
00:55:49,670 --> 00:55:47,579
order to drive the stuff through to

1305
00:55:51,410 --> 00:55:49,680
clear your toilet bowl you need to get a

1306
00:55:53,329 --> 00:55:51,420
plunger and you need to apply a lot of

1307
00:55:56,420 --> 00:55:53,339
energy to kind of push and push and push

1308
00:55:57,890 --> 00:55:56,430
and finally if clears the situation is

1309
00:56:00,109 --> 00:55:57,900
pretty much the same in the capillary

1310
00:56:03,949 --> 00:56:00,119
and it looks like Mother Nature screwed

1311
00:56:08,449 --> 00:56:03,959
up because no engineer would do such a

1312
00:56:10,549 --> 00:56:08,459
thing as to have stuff that's twice the

1313
00:56:12,709 --> 00:56:10,559
diameter of the tube it just simply

1314
00:56:14,900 --> 00:56:12,719
doesn't work and he said we calculated

1315
00:56:16,729 --> 00:56:14,910
how much energy is required I don't know

1316
00:56:19,729 --> 00:56:16,739
if his calculation was right or not but

1317
00:56:22,039 --> 00:56:19,739
he came up with something like it's a

1318
00:56:24,140 --> 00:56:22,049
heart were fully responsible for doing

1319
00:56:26,479 --> 00:56:24,150
all this pushing of the blood through

1320
00:56:28,309 --> 00:56:26,489
the small capillary the heart would need

1321
00:56:30,430 --> 00:56:28,319
to develop something like 1 million

1322
00:56:33,049 --> 00:56:30,440
times the pressure that it develops and

1323
00:56:33,849 --> 00:56:33,059
even if he's off by a factor of ten or a

1324
00:56:36,459 --> 00:56:33,859
hundred

1325
00:56:38,410 --> 00:56:36,469
still a very very major problem that you

1326
00:56:40,359 --> 00:56:38,420
could see intuitively is an issue and

1327
00:56:42,759 --> 00:56:40,369
actually if you watch the flow through

1328
00:56:45,039 --> 00:56:42,769
the capillaries we've done that you

1329
00:56:47,259 --> 00:56:45,049
don't see any pulsatilla T it looks like

1330
00:56:49,749 --> 00:56:47,269
the flow in the capillaries is smooth

1331
00:56:52,660 --> 00:56:49,759
and steady doesn't go push push push

1332
00:56:55,569 --> 00:56:52,670
like to the rhythm of the heart so it

1333
00:56:56,709 --> 00:56:55,579
seems disconnected and so he said

1334
00:56:59,109 --> 00:56:56,719
there's got to be something else that

1335
00:57:01,930 --> 00:56:59,119
some other energy is driving the flow

1336
00:57:05,410 --> 00:57:01,940
and of course immediately despite my

1337
00:57:08,109 --> 00:57:05,420
jetlag I could take ho you know we just

1338
00:57:10,479 --> 00:57:08,119
saw in the laboratory that you could get

1339
00:57:12,339 --> 00:57:10,489
flow through tubes and the energy that's

1340
00:57:14,949 --> 00:57:12,349
required is energy from the environment

1341
00:57:18,099 --> 00:57:14,959
from light especially infrared energy

1342
00:57:20,829 --> 00:57:18,109
now I'm thinking maybe this applies and

1343
00:57:23,109 --> 00:57:20,839
so I talk to my student who still didn't

1344
00:57:25,059 --> 00:57:23,119
have a project and I explained to him

1345
00:57:27,969 --> 00:57:25,069
that this is a possibility that maybe

1346
00:57:30,009 --> 00:57:27,979
this flow phenomenon that we saw in the

1347
00:57:32,319 --> 00:57:30,019
laboratory could be driving the flow in

1348
00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:32,329
capillaries and it's dependent on

1349
00:57:36,549 --> 00:57:34,130
infrared energy and inside the body

1350
00:57:39,819 --> 00:57:36,559
there's lots of infrared energy coming

1351
00:57:42,130 --> 00:57:39,829
from all the metabolic heat develops or

1352
00:57:44,079 --> 00:57:42,140
you can add some from outside too either

1353
00:57:47,410 --> 00:57:44,089
way and that could be put to use for

1354
00:57:49,479 --> 00:57:47,420
driving it so he admits to me three

1355
00:57:52,150 --> 00:57:49,489
years later that he thought my idea was

1356
00:57:54,609 --> 00:57:52,160
preposterous but he accepted it anyway

1357
00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:54,619
and after he began doing experiments

1358
00:57:59,559 --> 00:57:57,650
he's now absolutely convinced by his

1359
00:58:03,279 --> 00:57:59,569
evidence that this is true so the bottom

1360
00:58:05,499 --> 00:58:03,289
line is that for all of us if his

1361
00:58:07,209 --> 00:58:05,509
evidence holds up and I believe it

1362
00:58:11,259 --> 00:58:07,219
showed because it seems pretty clear

1363
00:58:13,809 --> 00:58:11,269
that the heart is not the only supplier

1364
00:58:16,150 --> 00:58:13,819
of energy to push the blood through the

1365
00:58:18,969 --> 00:58:16,160
system there's another one an auxilary

1366
00:58:22,089 --> 00:58:18,979
and that is in the small vessels perhaps

1367
00:58:24,670 --> 00:58:22,099
the capillary or maybe arterioles or

1368
00:58:27,339 --> 00:58:24,680
somewhere along the line there's another

1369
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:27,349
mechanism and that mechanism is the one

1370
00:58:32,739 --> 00:58:30,410
that's based on the easy water and if

1371
00:58:34,209 --> 00:58:32,749
you wish I can tell you in about two or

1372
00:58:35,380 --> 00:58:34,219
three minutes I just don't want to I

1373
00:58:38,289 --> 00:58:35,390
know you have a lot of other questions

1374
00:58:40,689 --> 00:58:38,299
we know pretty much how it works so it's

1375
00:58:43,569 --> 00:58:40,699
in the book fourth phase book which as

1376
00:58:46,509 --> 00:58:43,579
you say it's gotten pretty popular yes

1377
00:58:47,170 --> 00:58:46,519
it has and rightfully so I really do

1378
00:58:49,569 --> 00:58:47,180
love it

1379
00:58:51,819 --> 00:58:49,579
all but I would like to spend the last

1380
00:58:54,099 --> 00:58:51,829
bit of time we have together trying to

1381
00:58:56,140 --> 00:58:54,109
get beyond what's in the book if you

1382
00:58:58,839 --> 00:58:56,150
don't mind but for the main event here I

1383
00:59:00,849 --> 00:58:58,849
think we can call that a wrap you've

1384
00:59:04,180 --> 00:59:00,859
been really generous with your time and

1385
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:04,190
thank you so much yeah thank you very

1386
00:59:10,420 --> 00:59:07,490
much for the interesting question I

1387
00:59:12,220 --> 00:59:10,430
really appreciate that well the least I

1388
00:59:14,530 --> 00:59:12,230
could do is have some questions for you

1389
00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:14,540
but it was quite fun definitely an honor

1390
00:59:18,220 --> 00:59:16,130
and a pleasure I know you got to go I

1391
00:59:20,170 --> 00:59:18,230
will make sure to tell the people about

1392
00:59:22,390 --> 00:59:20,180
your books and website remind them of

1393
00:59:24,370 --> 00:59:22,400
all that good stuff keep doing the great

1394
00:59:29,880 --> 00:59:24,380
work you're doing and have a good one

1395
00:59:34,860 --> 00:59:32,320
rock me like a hurricane higher side

1396
00:59:38,920 --> 00:59:34,870
shatters how is that dr. Gerald [\h__\h]

1397
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:38,930
the water wizard himself again I'm sorry

1398
00:59:44,830 --> 00:59:41,450
it was a little short but that Plus show

1399
00:59:46,660 --> 00:59:44,840
where the respectable incredible dr.

1400
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:46,670
[\h__\h] goes on about his other

1401
00:59:52,780 --> 00:59:49,850
interests in weird science to me is

1402
00:59:55,570 --> 00:59:52,790
pretty amazing he's just such a nice

1403
00:59:58,150 --> 00:59:55,580
genuine guy I definitely wanted to be

1404
01:00:00,490 --> 00:59:58,160
respectful of his personal obligations

1405
01:00:03,670 --> 01:00:00,500
and not take up more time than I agreed

1406
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:03,680
to so I cut him loose and said look I

1407
01:00:07,330 --> 01:00:05,210
can tell the people that they should

1408
01:00:09,100 --> 01:00:07,340
check out more on your website I can

1409
01:00:10,690 --> 01:00:09,110
tell them that the fourth phase of water

1410
01:00:12,990 --> 01:00:10,700
is the book they should pick up to get

1411
01:00:15,970 --> 01:00:13,000
started and that's what I'm doing now

1412
01:00:18,730 --> 01:00:15,980
please do support dr. Pollock promote

1413
01:00:21,400 --> 01:00:18,740
him study his work and let him know that

1414
01:00:24,820 --> 01:00:21,410
you liked hearing from him and you want

1415
01:00:27,250 --> 01:00:24,830
to hear more on THC in particular

1416
01:00:29,650 --> 01:00:27,260
because I really pestered him for this

1417
01:00:32,110 --> 01:00:29,660
and I do want him to know that his time

1418
01:00:35,170 --> 01:00:32,120
was well spent his message received and

1419
01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:35,180
that it was an opportunity as much as it

1420
01:00:42,130 --> 01:00:39,410
was a granted courtesy to the guy who

1421
01:00:43,990 --> 01:00:42,140
wouldn't stop emailing as for the show

1422
01:00:46,030 --> 01:00:44,000
itself I definitely didn't want to

1423
01:00:48,220 --> 01:00:46,040
retread too much ground from dr.

1424
01:00:50,620 --> 01:00:48,230
Pollock's other interviews or why am I

1425
01:00:52,630 --> 01:00:50,630
even bothering the man so I thought I

1426
01:00:55,540 --> 01:00:52,640
would just hit two of those starter

1427
01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:55,550
questions the first being what chapters

1428
01:00:59,440 --> 01:00:57,650
in the history of water science are

1429
01:01:02,530 --> 01:00:59,450
worth telling as a way of setting the

1430
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:02,540
stage for a how there could really be so

1431
01:01:07,300 --> 01:01:04,250
many fundamental aspects of water that

1432
01:01:09,910 --> 01:01:07,310
we haven't fully explored yet and be how

1433
01:01:12,010 --> 01:01:09,920
the scientific quarantine either imposed

1434
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:12,020
by funding or self-imposed by

1435
01:01:17,440 --> 01:01:15,250
established bias which i think is

1436
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:17,450
subconsciously encouraged but regardless

1437
01:01:22,330 --> 01:01:20,810
how that interferes as well you know I

1438
01:01:25,060 --> 01:01:22,340
like exploring that with things like

1439
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:25,070
energy and transportation and medicine

1440
01:01:29,380 --> 01:01:27,050
it's important to know the road you're

1441
01:01:32,410 --> 01:01:29,390
on and you have to open people up to

1442
01:01:33,940 --> 01:01:32,420
their even being more to know before you

1443
01:01:37,180 --> 01:01:33,950
hit them with the paradigm changing

1444
01:01:39,460 --> 01:01:37,190
stuff and then the other intro question

1445
01:01:42,970 --> 01:01:39,470
was how do we summarize this work and

1446
01:01:46,570 --> 01:01:42,980
what easy water even is for people

1447
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:46,580
who don't know you got a try but with

1448
01:01:51,760 --> 01:01:48,890
those two questions we were a third done

1449
01:01:54,190 --> 01:01:51,770
and I had a minor panic attack but

1450
01:01:56,170 --> 01:01:54,200
luckily for at least the larger THC

1451
01:01:58,180 --> 01:01:56,180
audience we talked about a lot of this

1452
01:02:00,099 --> 01:01:58,190
stuff with dr. Stephen Hussey in the

1453
01:02:02,770 --> 01:02:00,109
last episode especially on the health

1454
01:02:05,620 --> 01:02:02,780
side so I went straight to the energy

1455
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:05,630
side because so many of dr. Pollock's

1456
01:02:10,120 --> 01:02:07,280
other interviews are dominated by the

1457
01:02:12,010 --> 01:02:10,130
health side and I get it we want to know

1458
01:02:15,220 --> 01:02:12,020
what we can do to increase the magic

1459
01:02:17,109 --> 01:02:15,230
elixir of the easy gods and yes easy

1460
01:02:20,109 --> 01:02:17,119
water is key to understanding the

1461
01:02:23,380 --> 01:02:20,119
infrared and juice cleanse healing

1462
01:02:25,780 --> 01:02:23,390
modalities homeopathy as well it

1463
01:02:29,130 --> 01:02:25,790
revolutionizes the concept of the heart

1464
01:02:31,510 --> 01:02:29,140
and blood flow it's no small thing and

1465
01:02:34,900 --> 01:02:31,520
I've heard people ask them about the

1466
01:02:37,480 --> 01:02:34,910
effects of fluoride glyphosate sugar and

1467
01:02:40,630 --> 01:02:37,490
heavy metals on structured water or the

1468
01:02:43,810 --> 01:02:40,640
ratio of easy water in our bodies and

1469
01:02:45,190 --> 01:02:43,820
surprise surprise it's not good we

1470
01:02:48,040 --> 01:02:45,200
already know these things aren't great

1471
01:02:50,770 --> 01:02:48,050
for us so let's talk about water engines

1472
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:50,780
rather than a new understanding of why

1473
01:02:57,099 --> 01:02:52,970
poison in the food supply might be a

1474
01:02:59,830 --> 01:02:57,109
problem but I do find it all to be

1475
01:03:01,630 --> 01:02:59,840
pretty revolutionary and great evidence

1476
01:03:03,550 --> 01:03:01,640
that supports the elegance and

1477
01:03:05,530 --> 01:03:03,560
importance of our natural holistic

1478
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:05,540
systems over the cold mechanical

1479
01:03:11,680 --> 01:03:08,210
ai-controlled cookie cutter life of

1480
01:03:14,790 --> 01:03:11,690
mundane numbness and I'm sorry the plus

1481
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:14,800
show is so juicy and so private

1482
01:03:20,140 --> 01:03:17,530
obviously that's how we do the show and

1483
01:03:21,700 --> 01:03:20,150
the nature of a conversation is that it

1484
01:03:23,859 --> 01:03:21,710
gets deeper towards the end not the

1485
01:03:25,570 --> 01:03:23,869
beginning but in the Plus show dr.

1486
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:25,580
[\h__\h] talked about the Earth's net

1487
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:27,680
negative charge and how we might use

1488
01:03:34,859 --> 01:03:31,970
that and primarily engineers deep

1489
01:03:37,270 --> 01:03:34,869
questions on cavitation water

1490
01:03:41,410 --> 01:03:37,280
transmutation and the work of Mark

1491
01:03:44,140 --> 01:03:41,420
LeClair and also flight electrostatic

1492
01:03:46,900 --> 01:03:44,150
and rotation and I think you know what

1493
01:03:48,760 --> 01:03:46,910
we're getting out there but yeah sign up

1494
01:03:51,880 --> 01:03:48,770
for THC plus if you want to get the full

1495
01:03:55,330 --> 01:03:51,890
show not just this episode but every

1496
01:03:56,710 --> 01:03:55,340
episode we don't do sponsors or networks

1497
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:56,720
or any of that it's just

1498
01:04:01,540 --> 01:03:59,599
and you baby but just a touch on a few

1499
01:04:03,069 --> 01:04:01,550
things I've heard dr. Pollock bring up

1500
01:04:05,109 --> 01:04:03,079
in other interviews that are interesting

1501
01:04:08,980 --> 01:04:05,119
I've heard him talk about the huns of

1502
01:04:12,609 --> 01:04:08,990
people they live in a fairly isolated

1503
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:12,619
area of Pakistan in the Himalayas but

1504
01:04:16,059 --> 01:04:14,210
the stories are that they can easily

1505
01:04:18,490 --> 01:04:16,069
live to be a hundred and twenty

1506
01:04:21,040 --> 01:04:18,500
sometimes a hundred and fifty they don't

1507
01:04:23,319 --> 01:04:21,050
get cancer women can get pregnant in

1508
01:04:26,349 --> 01:04:23,329
their 60s 70s 80s

1509
01:04:28,540 --> 01:04:26,359
some even say 90s they have a

1510
01:04:31,270 --> 01:04:28,550
well-established shamanic tradition

1511
01:04:34,660 --> 01:04:31,280
as a sidenote but they are also living

1512
01:04:37,480 --> 01:04:34,670
off glacier water and apricots largely

1513
01:04:40,180 --> 01:04:37,490
I've also read that they drink this

1514
01:04:43,870 --> 01:04:40,190
water that is so high in mineral content

1515
01:04:48,190 --> 01:04:43,880
it's almost thick well gel-like is a

1516
01:04:50,910 --> 01:04:48,200
structured water descriptor and I'm sure

1517
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:50,920
this is a huge piece of their longevity

1518
01:04:56,200 --> 01:04:54,050
increasing lifestyle people might also

1519
01:04:59,170 --> 01:04:56,210
know Dave Asprey from bulletproof coffee

1520
01:05:02,410 --> 01:04:59,180
I interviewed him here way back in the

1521
01:05:04,839 --> 01:05:02,420
day but he is a big dr. [\h__\h] fan as

1522
01:05:07,690 --> 01:05:04,849
well and we know that bubbles increase

1523
01:05:10,809 --> 01:05:07,700
easy because around each one is an easy

1524
01:05:12,670 --> 01:05:10,819
layer and that becomes another reason

1525
01:05:15,790 --> 01:05:12,680
why this bulletproof coffee thing seems

1526
01:05:19,260 --> 01:05:15,800
to increase health because blending it

1527
01:05:21,970 --> 01:05:19,270
with butter is a part of that process

1528
01:05:23,609 --> 01:05:21,980
homeopathy a big part of that process is

1529
01:05:27,400 --> 01:05:23,619
shaking it and creating bubbles

1530
01:05:29,740 --> 01:05:27,410
something is up here how much of our six

1531
01:05:31,990 --> 01:05:29,750
society and crippled immune systems

1532
01:05:34,870 --> 01:05:32,000
could be healed with this information

1533
01:05:36,700 --> 01:05:34,880
of course validation from the system is

1534
01:05:40,210 --> 01:05:36,710
only so valuable but get this man a

1535
01:05:42,400 --> 01:05:40,220
Nobel Prize I don't know but I'd find

1536
01:05:45,370 --> 01:05:42,410
myself just staring at a glass of water

1537
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:45,380
now holding my drink up into the sun's

1538
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:48,650
rays even for just a minute it's

1539
01:05:53,710 --> 01:05:50,930
probably psychological but we know the

1540
01:05:56,650 --> 01:05:53,720
power of the mind but just as the keto

1541
01:05:59,319 --> 01:05:56,660
diet centers around getting your body to

1542
01:06:01,900 --> 01:05:59,329
process fats as energy instead of carbs

1543
01:06:04,990 --> 01:06:01,910
and sugar dr. [\h__\h] has also talked

1544
01:06:08,290 --> 01:06:05,000
about this broth aryan movement now some

1545
01:06:10,510 --> 01:06:08,300
hair amine as popular as he is claims

1546
01:06:12,970 --> 01:06:10,520
that he's gone years without eating

1547
01:06:15,790 --> 01:06:12,980
and maybe this structured water context

1548
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:15,800
can explain that the documentary on it

1549
01:06:22,530 --> 01:06:18,530
is called eat the Sun well dr. [\h__\h]

1550
01:06:26,560 --> 01:06:22,540
has explained this system as a sort of

1551
01:06:29,170 --> 01:06:26,570
human photosynthesis and I'm pretty open

1552
01:06:31,900 --> 01:06:29,180
to it now that a person can sustain

1553
01:06:35,260 --> 01:06:31,910
themselves on how easy water content in

1554
01:06:36,670 --> 01:06:35,270
their bodies and sunlight I don't want

1555
01:06:39,610 --> 01:06:36,680
to live like that though I'm still an

1556
01:06:42,190 --> 01:06:39,620
American damn it but guys like dr.

1557
01:06:46,030 --> 01:06:42,200
[\h__\h] are the ones that bridge the gap

1558
01:06:48,700 --> 01:06:46,040
between academia and the alternative he

1559
01:06:51,070 --> 01:06:48,710
mentioned Dean Radin in the + show Dean

1560
01:06:54,370 --> 01:06:51,080
Raiden's latest book is titled magic is

1561
01:06:57,130 --> 01:06:54,380
real I mean we are at the gates of the

1562
01:07:01,030 --> 01:06:57,140
dominant of water inclusion and it feels

1563
01:07:03,850 --> 01:07:01,040
fine big thanks to both dr. Raiden and

1564
01:07:06,130 --> 01:07:03,860
dr. Pollock and all of these one foot in

1565
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:06,140
one foot out folks who are willing to go

1566
01:07:10,980 --> 01:07:08,570
full weirdo with someone like me

1567
01:07:13,660 --> 01:07:10,990
on a show called the higher side chats

1568
01:07:15,850 --> 01:07:13,670
it's not good for anyone's image and

1569
01:07:18,310 --> 01:07:15,860
they're comfortable and confident enough

1570
01:07:20,410 --> 01:07:18,320
to take the chance so I try really hard

1571
01:07:23,140 --> 01:07:20,420
to make sure they leave feeling just as

1572
01:07:25,270 --> 01:07:23,150
comfortable and confident but I hope you

1573
01:07:28,630 --> 01:07:25,280
liked it and I hope you pencil some of

1574
01:07:30,040 --> 01:07:28,640
this stuff in on your reality map get

1575
01:07:32,560 --> 01:07:30,050
yourself a copy of the fourth phase of

1576
01:07:33,490 --> 01:07:32,570
water give it to your teachers give it

1577
01:07:35,560 --> 01:07:33,500
to your kids

1578
01:07:38,440 --> 01:07:35,570
alternative thinkers love to promote

1579
01:07:40,990 --> 01:07:38,450
their ideas and with shows like this I

1580
01:07:44,050 --> 01:07:41,000
try to give you a better data better

1581
01:07:46,870 --> 01:07:44,060
information stuff that can actually push

1582
01:07:50,710 --> 01:07:46,880
us forward more than an angry shaking

1583
01:07:53,560 --> 01:07:50,720
fist ever will so go to Pollock lab dot

1584
01:07:56,440 --> 01:07:53,570
org maybe I'll see you at the conference

1585
01:07:59,800 --> 01:07:56,450
in Germany next year or if you want to

1586
01:08:02,050 --> 01:07:59,810
donate any kind of money to research I

1587
01:08:03,820 --> 01:08:02,060
would avoid the bottomless pits that

1588
01:08:06,340 --> 01:08:03,830
have formed under all the various

1589
01:08:09,100 --> 01:08:06,350
conditions we can get from our backwards

1590
01:08:11,590 --> 01:08:09,110
lifestyles and I'd put a few bucks into

1591
01:08:13,260 --> 01:08:11,600
something like dr. Pollock's Institute

1592
01:08:15,670 --> 01:08:13,270
for venture science

1593
01:08:18,820 --> 01:08:15,680
let me just read its mission statement

1594
01:08:21,519 --> 01:08:18,830
from his website the Institute of

1595
01:08:23,349 --> 01:08:21,529
venture science was founded in 2013 and

1596
01:08:24,160 --> 01:08:23,359
Gerald [\h__\h] is the founding executive

1597
01:08:27,220 --> 01:08:24,170
director

1598
01:08:29,849 --> 01:08:27,230
after the IV s funds scientific

1599
01:08:33,220 --> 01:08:29,859
inquiries into high-risk high-reward

1600
01:08:36,099 --> 01:08:33,230
theses the challenge conventional

1601
01:08:38,050 --> 01:08:36,109
thinking by virtue of their break with

1602
01:08:39,700 --> 01:08:38,060
ideas that may have become more

1603
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:39,710
traditional than forward-looking

1604
01:08:44,260 --> 01:08:42,650
concepts these fresh challenges may lead

1605
01:08:47,470 --> 01:08:44,270
to fundamental breakthroughs in

1606
01:08:49,030 --> 01:08:47,480
understanding the IV s identifies the

1607
01:08:51,519 --> 01:08:49,040
most promising ideas that challenge

1608
01:08:54,400 --> 01:08:51,529
prevailing paradigms from each selective

1609
01:08:56,229 --> 01:08:54,410
thesis it will simultaneously fund

1610
01:08:58,510 --> 01:08:56,239
multiple research teams working

1611
01:09:01,260 --> 01:08:58,520
independently in various nations around

1612
01:09:03,579 --> 01:09:01,270
the world funding multiple laboratories

1613
01:09:07,300 --> 01:09:03,589
increases the likelihood that the

1614
01:09:10,180 --> 01:09:07,310
challenge will bear fruit this is how we

1615
01:09:13,599 --> 01:09:10,190
break the quarantine right so respect

1616
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:13,609
the man and thanks for listening but I

1617
01:09:18,430 --> 01:09:15,890
hope we don't mind too much a slightly

1618
01:09:21,999 --> 01:09:18,440
shorter show that I think packs a punch

1619
01:09:26,110 --> 01:09:22,009
of higher than average potency I should

1620
01:09:29,769 --> 01:09:26,120
say that I do have an extra 1 hour plus

1621
01:09:31,630 --> 01:09:29,779
bonus show in the works so you'll get

1622
01:09:34,510 --> 01:09:31,640
that when it's ready and end up with

1623
01:09:37,930 --> 01:09:34,520
more than the usual paid extra content

1624
01:09:39,519 --> 01:09:37,940
so be on the lookout for it also I

1625
01:09:41,620 --> 01:09:39,529
should say that our joint session is

1626
01:09:44,620 --> 01:09:41,630
going to be on the 20th this month man

1627
01:09:47,890 --> 01:09:44,630
this month is flying by that is Monday

1628
01:09:51,309 --> 01:09:47,900
Monday Monday so please come and join me

1629
01:09:52,689 --> 01:09:51,319
for a little digital hang but I got to

1630
01:09:54,910 --> 01:09:52,699
get out of here I'll catch you next time

1631
01:09:57,010 --> 01:09:54,920
your move dark sorcerer's of the

1632
01:10:00,510 --> 01:09:57,020
scientific quarantine and promoters of

1633
01:10:04,250 --> 01:10:00,520
the cold mechanical materialist mindset

1634
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:04,260
your [\h__\h]

1635
01:10:19,660 --> 01:10:14,130
oh no you see no world isn't random it's

1636
01:10:26,270 --> 01:10:19,670
attached to pub or Street control over

1637
01:10:32,140 --> 01:10:26,280
everything 95 is trying to steal yeah

1638
01:10:38,410 --> 01:10:32,150
now don't that job seem silly hello

1639
01:10:42,130 --> 01:10:38,420
here should I play back

1640
01:10:42,700 --> 01:10:42,140
and some spy agency which we were

1641
01:10:46,569 --> 01:10:42,710
younger

1642
01:10:51,109 --> 01:10:46,579
[Music]

1643
01:11:00,590 --> 01:10:51,119
I'll be thankful when it's exposed the

1644
01:11:37,660 --> 01:11:34,770
[Music]

1645
01:11:59,139 --> 01:11:37,670
the

1646
01:12:06,580 --> 01:11:59,149
[Music]

1647
01:12:11,379 --> 01:12:06,590
oh no they're cartoons it's so typical

1648
01:12:19,859 --> 01:12:11,389
of me to talk about the stuff I'm sorry

1649
01:12:24,069 --> 01:12:19,869
there's good and well did you ever hear

1650
01:12:24,920 --> 01:12:24,079
argument the nothing really happens it's

1651
01:12:29,669 --> 01:12:24,930
no secret

1652
01:14:23,990 --> 01:12:29,679
[Music]